499 Block Korea Questions

[Music] hi everybody Cheryl's Hoskinson here I promise it's a group a little while ago Vivian and her friends to answer a few questions for a we chat group called for nine black area so they have four hundred ninety nine of the most prominent female entrepreneurs in Korea who are in the blockchain space and they asked me for an interview and originally was supposed to be a text interview that I said well how about I just make a video and you guys give me the questions and I can answer those questions and then they can translate it into Korean into other languages as well I believe they have a following in China so the eight questions that they they asked me the first question is can you tell us a little bit about yourself I'm Charles Hawkinson the CEO of IO HK the second question is can you introduce I which k-card on a foundation in a mergo so I believe this questions in context to the Cardno project so for those in the group the Cardinal project is a project that began in 2015 and it really was a federation of different actors attempting to functionally build a third generation cryptocurrency and it's being built with principles so we're using formal methods and peer review and the purpose of this project is to imagine a classification of technology a collection of technology that would allow us to scale to millions to billions of users be interoperable with both legacy and also traditional cryptocurrency systems and then finally be sustainable so it's a system that can last long-term three principal entities that came together to form this Confederation were the Cardinal Foundation which is a stiff Tong based in Zhuge a mergo which is a company based in Japan and I which Kay joined it as the technical partner and were based in Wyoming it as input/output global question to congratulations for success of maintenance can we know a present situation of Daedalus of great development and Camino cardano's or Boris consensus algorithm so main internal launch in September of 2014 and basically it was the first purpose was to build a population around the prince simples of the project to get some liquidity for the project and to also allow us to test a lot of the concepts and ideas that we've been playing around with like how to build the Haskell based software product how to release software into market how to work with infrastructure providers like wallet provider is ledger exchanges these types of people and now we're leaving the old area biron which was the first generation of the system and we're entering the Shelly phase now the question mentioned Dedalus card on wallet Daedalus is going to go through a lot of upgrades this year one of our highest priorities is multi-sig support we'd also like to have account differentiation so you can manage accounts that are living outside of Daedalus for example paper wallets as well as Hardware wallet devices staking support and also a stake pool center so you can actually search and register your own stake pools and then later on upgrades a CSV exporter having a lot more metadata some sort of a friend system you can add friends for other people and alias addresses to them things a light wallet support and the other features like that command-line interface inside the GUI so you can bring up a terminal and write your own scripts against the wallet these are the kinds of things that we anticipate within 2019 and throughout 2020 and eventually we'll have a Treasury system within Cardno and there'll be a voting center for that Treasury system kind of like - central or something like that okay question three since when are you thinking of practical use in Japan I want your plans for the practical use of card off watching a to coin in the Asian market so America is really responsible for the commercialization of the technology and they've been doing various things throughout Japan Indonesia but we have been aggressively pursuing Mongolia as a great case study for all kinds of things from building local currencies to air quality pilots to supply chain projects really the growth curve for cart Nanako the thing that we think a lot about is how do we build in on-ramp for people that are completely outside of the crypto see space right now a lot of people especially in the top 15 top 20 are making a very win-lose argument about the effect of the currency so when a product a wants to get users what they do is they target product B and they go to product B and say oh no your thing is crap you should leave the product and come to our thing for example a lot of people are saying oh abandoned aetherium for example Tron and they say leave a theorem and come develop on our platform so that's very basically a sum 0 game and what we've looked to the adoption of cardano's we've always viewed it in terms of bringing new people into the space so for example right now I'm negotiating with Ethiopian government to produce a token for Addis Ababa well that's not just something that lives in isolation if that's successful then what that means is we brought millions of new people into the cryptocurrency world because they now have wallets and digital identities and they're in the space and you can use that ecosystem to now give them X secondary services which are inevitably going to be things like gaps on card on oh so these are people who previously had no business in the cryptocurrency space they didn't care about crypto currencies and now they've been brought into our industry through some sort of channel so that's really the adoption curve that we're chasing because it scales very very well there's certainly a lot of things we offer for people within the cryptocurrency space we will make the argument we think Plutus is really the best development environment and the safest development experience for hi Sharon's applications and smart contracts by definition are and of course will aggressively compete in places to try to bring users in but really if all we're doing is moving water from one side of the bathtub to the other you haven't really added a lot more water and it's going to just get colder and colder you have to add new water into the top and that's basically what we're dealing with our strategy ok question 3 part 1 and now there's a part two I'll come on that's not fair what projects are products do you plan to use if it becomes practical in Japan Japan really does need a lot of innovation especially in the rural areas they have a population dynamic that is kind of working against the entire country so what's happening in Japan at the moment is that people are getting older and the work source continues to get more and more centralized so peeve areas like Hokkaido or Fukuoka or Mishima or Okinawa and they tend to centralize in places like Tokyo for example and so as a consequence these rural areas in Japan have become systematically poorer they have a higher unemployment rate and basically there's not a lot of replacement population so as a consequence the real estate prices are going down wealth is starting to leave those areas and it's it's a big challenge for the Japanese government and it's a big challenge for Japan as a country so it would be really cool to see if we can reinvigorate these areas of real Japan and by using innovative technologies not just blockchain but AI and IOT and other things to innovate industry verticals that are meaningful in those areas for example there's a lot of agricultural production in rural Japan especially with rice and things like that and this is ripe for innovation and just small changes could potentially massively improve yields improve quality and bring a little bit more wealth in furthermore if they develop a more entrepreneurial culture there are incentives for people to not leave their families but actually stay and innovate within those local areas so blockchain can certainly be part of that story and ironically we actually just went to university of wyoming today I drove up to Laramie Wyoming from Longmont where I live and is a nice two-hour drive very foggy down to 87 but I had a chance to speak with a lot of people there and they've read it the same situation in Wyoming where people tend to leave they don't tend to stay and so when your best and brightest are always leaving and your young people are always leaving it really does hurt the local economy and maybe she had kind of a monolithic economy around agriculture and natural resource extraction so the same types of solutions that potentially can keep people in Wyoming could potentially also help in rural Japan and it'd be really fun to see if Cardno can be part of that story given the nature that you don't have to move or relocate to build great companies and it's not necessarily exclusive to Japan conduct Cardona released an ADA card in Korea how do you plan the devel in the future so the inner card was a portent to have great caching great cash out in Merchant adoption if you do plan to use ADA as a currency or if you do plan to use ADA is some form of a store of value you need to have good liquidity and you need to have ability to easily go in and out of the currency or else it's not it's not terribly useful so my belief is that this is organically going to happen over time Samsung is starting to support cryptocurrency wallets they started with aetherium but there's a lot of discussion about opening that up in Korea in particular I'll be there I believe in July and I think we do have a meeting with Samsung and I'm gonna try to get an understanding of what it's going to take to get it into that ecosystem this is an s10 and there are many of them in circulation and every Samsung phone built from here on out will likely have crypto currency wallet capabilities and because people like competing this can end up being on HTC phones that is going to be on iPhones and all kinds of things and so if you have cryptocurrencies in the phone you have NFC in the phone and you have programmable pauses you're really going to see an easy time to do transactions with crypto currencies to merchants and then when the regulations get a little bit better what will happen is market makers will exist for a real time so the merchants actually doesn't have to accept ADA or Bitcoin or ether they'll simply just get whatever currency wander yen or dollars and in the process of getting that there's there's been some middleman that's actually taking the crypto side of the volatility for fee just like bitpay does so I firmly believe that's going to happen and all we really need to do is just make sure that we're included in that list of currencies that get into these devices and as a top 10 Queen and given that we have some great technology I think we have a very high chance of that okay let me see here okay that was the question I thought it was a korean to english translation i'll infer that i probably wanted to know more about that memorandum of understanding yes we signed it a MoU shortly for the average-case summit she signed it before I went the summit and basically the idea of the MOU is to explore constructing a municipal currency that people can use to pay their utilities in addis ababa it's actually a big big issue right now you want to pay your water bill your power bill it can take hours some cases days even if you've paid it sometimes they make mistakes and you still have your power turned off you have to fight for days to get it turned on I've even heard of cases of more affluent people living in Ethiopia paying people to just deal with the burden of paying their utilities every month it's actually a small business people can run on the side so the idea is that you'd be able to take bearer which is the local currency digitize it and then you could use this on a cell phone or a payment terminal to pay your utility bills instantly so instead of it taking hours you just click a button and you've serviced the payment should that be successful we could explore other things like cell phone bills tolls public transit fees these types of things so we're in the preliminary stages but we have gone quite far in the negotiations and will make later announcements about it and it's a good model for municipal currencies throughout the world and we've actually already examined other models like when I was in Mongolia for example we had a great conversations with one of their telcos MOU be calm and Moe be calm actually has a similar system called candy that they've constructed where you can take the two Greek which is the local currency of Mongolia digitize it and then use it to do similar things so we we definitely had some discussions about what they learned and what they've experienced because they've been working on this for 12 years off and on and a variety of different models it originally started as a loyalty point system and that it turned into a kind of a regulated currency system regulated by the Bank of Mongolia question six what are your plans for 2019 for unbanked population also is there a solution to card no solution to a population that has never used financial services but is using cash only for economic bankruptcy or other reasons okay parsing the meaning that question basically it's a question about well how do we handle the unbanked and I think there's really a three prong approach you need to examine with the unpacks number one you need to understand that the unbanked are not poor necessarily they still have the ability to produce wealth they still have local wealth whether it be knowledge or land or raw resources so there's something of value there the problem is their value is incompatible with the global economy we to undervalue the things that they can contribute so the first step is to get an understanding of what is that local value there and then give them some sort of means of creating the liquidity within that source and then bring that liquidity into a global market so that's kind of the first step there's economists write about this like Hernando DeSoto Lauder and there's various people have tried various experiment it's in my find such things so that's one thing is its kind of an understanding the market dynamics of where a person lives and then second you really need to look at case studies where there are rural populations but those rural populations still have access to financial services one of the reasons why we're so interested in Mongolia as a country is not because it's an economic superpower it's quite small there's only three million people there and nobody really considers Mongolia to be a huge economy in Asia that said despite the fact that 900,000 people in that country are nomads they live in gars and they burn coal the state of warmth ninety-three percent of the people in the country have access to banking services so that means a considerable amount of the nomads in Mongolia are banked and that should not be the case very rural areas outside of Mulan badr there's no cell phone signal and there's dirt roads and these things and people basically just wander throughout follow their animals yet they actually have access to banking services so there's there's certain things that have been done very right within those particular types of models and they're all other models like when we talk to the agricultural transformation agency the ATA in ethiopia we had a discussion about their voucher systems that they gave farmers to purchase fertilizer and other goods and we found out that among the pilots that they did in 2012 to today well they had nearly a hundred percent repayment rate which is unheard of with microfinance it's unheard of with voucher systems so there are ways to move value there represent value to get banking services or mobile services to people who are quite remote and also any diaspora that somehow still have access to financial systems our great case studies so the second thing when you with the unbanked is figure out words actually worked before and that provides you a lot of great models of how to bring people in and the third thing is you don't directly bank people you start with identity that's kind of the most foundational component of a system is just get an understanding of who people are what are they how old are they where do they live what's their reputation what is their social graph a lot of this data does exist even in the poorest places in the world the problem is it's fragmented like when we talked to the ATA that they're responsible for representing 15 million smallholder farmers in Ethiopia they have very extensive datasets on over three million of those fifteen million farmers and they put them into what are called agricultural commercialization clusters ACC's that said the datasets live in like six seven silos and they're on paper and it's really difficult to unify and pull things together so before you attempt to Bank anybody the really the first step is to attempt to identify people and get an understanding who people are and do that in a very low-cost way and do that in a way that's digital and do that in a way where you can retrieve that information easily mine and do all kinds of things now once you have that then likely if you've done it correctly you also have a public/private key pair that is associated with the identity and then you can use that as a route for a wallet as for some sort of a payment system that's cryptocurrency based then there's a question of well what are the objects that operate on those payment rails and if you have the ability to digitize the local currency of the country or some representation of that local currency then it's actually incredibly easy to get local buy-in and incredibly easy to get people paid and in many cases is a superior system to the systems that we see in the developing world like one of my biggest frustrations in Ethiopia is having to carry a lot of bear the currency is not worth very much you get tons out of the ATM and you end up carrying large chunks of money to pay for restaurants and transportation and other such things and it's quite dangerous it's it's quite inefficient and also it that the currency rapidly loses its value we had a digitized representation of it that would solve a lot of problems for me especially if I could easily convert that back into the paper representation if necessary so that third plank of basically just get your identity system and get that system linked to a payment system and the digitize local representations of the currency that gives you then of great foundation and then it's very easy to construct micro banks you do that with local merchants local communities you can set up cooperatives there's all kinds of models and then you can even back the portfolio's with collateral like agricultural collateral and then you can get international agreements to basically collateralize these these small groups and they'll have a very low default risk and the credit will be quite good and then it's easy to link them together on broader markets and these are the things that we kind of think about there's a lot of financial engineering that we can do to make these things sustainable that's said it does take years some cases decades but we're not in this alone Muhammad Yunus started this long time ago with Grameen Bank and there's dozens of great entrepreneurs some of one Nobel prizes for it if you think about it it's just a matter of taking old concepts and applying new tools and getting them unified under identity okay all right what else we got here I wonder if there are any difficulties in the process of the agreement with the government I wonder how the Cardo team can overcome the challenges they face in achieving their vision it is very difficult working with governments first because governments don't play by normal rules if I work with a commercial partner let's say Microsoft or IBM and they defraud us we can take them to the courts sue them and we live in the rule of law jurisdictions the European Union or the United States and and basically if they really violated the contract I have a strong expectation that I hope be made whole now this is not always true and there's numerous numerous cases where people have had to go to war with big companies and the companies dragged their feet for a long time and these David and Goliath stories they sometimes even make movies about that said when your counterparty is a government the problem is the government can defraud you this has happened in Venezuela this is happening all throughout Africa this happens all the time in Asia and when they defraud you you have no reef you can't go to the government's courts and say all the government screwed me if especially if it's a jurisdiction that doesn't respect rule of law so when you do business in these jurisdictions it's not necessarily about the contract or the legal agreement that you have that's nice to have and it certainly it's a necessary condition to doing business but it's not sufficient it's about politics and leverage if you create a scenario where violation of the contract creates political risk or it actually hurts the local economy or it harms people's ability to operate then then there's a very strong possibility that that contract will continue to be honored even if the politician doesn't want to do that so great examples are let's say you have a local branch and you're now employing lots of local people and you've created an enormous amount of goodwill and good politics there that have benefited local politicians should they violate the contract and give it to their brother or their friend you would terminate all those employees and that nepotism and corruption would be unlikely to benefit the prior employees as a consequence they've just created a lot of unemployment a lot of ill-will in a very very public way so even if the regime is corrupt it's it's not in their best interest to to do that now this is not always a sure fire protection but it shows you the train of thought you have to have in the developing world it's more about relationships it's more about leverage it's more about politics than it is necessarily about rule of law and contracts this is again another reason why these jurisdictions are having difficulty integrating themselves into the global economy in the United States there are there places we think about rigid laws and contracts and agreements and they are very meaningful and that's really the soul of the deal and then it's it's difficult to translate that to a place where it's a handshake and the guy and you again they you so you kind of get that I and it's very frustrating at times because if government's change it can be very devastating to your ability to operate for Mongolia is a good example of this so when we talk to the US ambassador one of the issues that that the that was brought up was that the Mongolian government tends to have a global refresh of very often or they decimate their civil service and that's really problematic we used to do that in the United States it was called the patronage system so when somebody won the White House they would just decimate the whole bureaucracy then later on what ended up happening is you'd have your top layer the command and control be a political appointees and people associated with the political party but the vast majority of people in the bureaucratic system would be lifers they'd be permanent employees so it didn't matter if Bill Clinton is president or George Bush's president or Donald Trump as president it wouldn't have a lot of impact on the rank and file at the FBI or the Department of Energy or the Department of Agriculture that means if you have a relationship with one of those ministries then even if the leadership changes that relationship is likely to stay stable and that the operations will be stable but if they gut the entire set and they replace it every 24 or 36 months it means that every 24 36 months you may have to build new relationships in certain things that you think would be stable even if people have an incentive to do it like let's say for example in on butter to build a mass transit system because they have some of the worst traffic in the world become very difficult and problematic so and this is a hallmark of a lot of developing world countries where regimes change and then they completely wipe out the the civil service now unfortunately what this means is that some of the most stable countries tend to be the ones with some of the most vicious dictators or the people who have been very good at holding on to power for long periods of time so you create this perverse incentive to keep strongmen in power in exchange for stable business relationships whereas democracies that continue to rotate people out quickly could become unstable and damage their business relationships so it is another big challenge and it's something that you have to think really carefully about the other thing is the relationship between the regional government and the central government certain countries are incredibly stable and other countries the regional government actually has more power than the central country and this could in both the developing and developed world Switzerland for example is infamous there are Confederacy and the Canton's have an enormous amount of authority including over taxation it would be the state of Colorado telling the IRS how my taxes should be you just never sees that in the United States but you can see that in Switzerland in other places the central government is extremely extremely powerful I can Rwanda for example and the kind of Mende terms on how things are going to rot so we're we're working through that and it's a it's every country's a snowflake and and really what you need to do is be very good at listening and be very good at business intelligence and be very good at reading a lot of reports everyone from the RAND Corporation to see fr to every think tank has produced thousands and thousands of pages of great documentation and if you're a kind of a data nerd and you actually like reading these things you really can't find a lot of gems and learn a lot of great things and then you can kind of create a risk profile for each country and then certain countries are places where you can do business on a stable in the long term in other countries you really need to be paid upfront because you're not sure of the certainty in two or three years okay let's see here what are some things that will be added and developed to blockchain characteristics of a DES Network other than simple monetary function well card ATO is a third-generation crypto currency so that means we have to incorporate all the first and second generation features so first generation or payment system just like bitcoins second generation or smart contracts like aetherium the third generation are the evaluative features so namely that features required to achieve scale so take these prior two generations and make them work for millions to billions and then also be able to have the features of your system the understand understood by other systems outside of your system and also understand things from systems outside of your says so interoperability and then finally a Treasury system and a voting system for the governance of the system so this this is non-trivial democracy is super hard economics is super hard and interoperability is an endless goal and the furthermore scale is extremely hard because you try to keep your characteristics and your principles of yours some as do you add users so if we achieve these things alone that would be revolutionary but when you really start deconstructing a lot of these requirements you start learning that you have to add a lot of new features and functionality for example the very same things that will make you interoperable with other blockchains will also give you best in class like clients because you need the ability to validate facts and transactions and other things from foreign systems those same proofs can be reused on your own blockchain so you end up getting cellphone clients and light clients that have full node security for example and they work very quickly and they can validate transactions very quickly the same kinds of things that will allow you to scale to millions of users will inevitably allow you to be a payment system that's usable at a point of sale or an ATM or a vending machine which is something that's quite difficult with a Bitcoin like system and furthermore the same kinds of things that allow you to have a Treasury system will also allow you to explore all kinds of new monetary policy it will also allow you to explore all kinds of new funding structures and organizational structures for the ecosystem not just on the core protocol but also for a venture capital component so for future companies so it's entirely possible that the protocol can be its own VC so these are the kinds of features we're exploring we also look at other things we built these cells we built a financial DSL from Marlow and we're combining with actus so you kind of have a bank in a box and you can do everything they can do in a single modeling language that's getting more sophisticated day-by-day we're looking at two legal dia cells as well so you can write up really cool computer understandable contracts we also think about things like contingent settlement and decentralized identifiers and these types of things which are create innovations that need to be brought into the cryptocurrency space and they are being brought in through the periphery but they need to be brought into mainstream top ten cryptocurrencies in in addition to the ability to run things in a femoral off change domains like for example NPC circuits off chain and for interactive temporary computation or concise soft chain computation through the use of Starks and things like that so these are the kinds of things we'll bring to heel and we the researchers for it we have the roadmap for it we kind of know who we need to talk to and some things can't be done in this year or next year because they simply require more basic science for Boris for example we started the research for that in 2015 and we're still doing research and we've written a lot of papers and will continue to write a lot of papers but we're now kind of midstream too late stream in that research life other things like treasury systems the first generation will come out in 2020 but by no means is that the last generation it's going to go on for five years ten years before I think we have a system that will be universally accepted by the space says yeah this is definitely the way to go just like proof of stake has started to become more and more accepted within the top cap okay question eight I want to know Charles's personal wishes and opinions about what he thinks eight and we'll have in the next five years okay so Michael fraida was to look at it in in a series of basically epochs of generations of evolutions so it's almost a hero's journey so when we started we were nothing we were just an idea on a whiteboard of well we have some high-level goals how do we get to millions of users how do we work with a lot of stuff how do we be sustainable and what is our growth model need to look and and how do we do science and how do we do engineering and these are aspirations they were they were nothing they were just basically people talking in a board room writing ideas with a marker or on a whiteboard no funding no nothing and and basically no one took us seriously I was just the guy that left the theory that was it then funding materialized scientists materialized engineers materialized and then we got the right to try so now we are right in the middle of trying and you can see very publicly in a very transparent way an enormous amount of output from that more than 40 papers you can see lots of code products and market great liquidity a lot of community members ideas flowing very rapidly progress starting to speed up and what's going to happen is over time the system will become more and more useful now my first hope for the in a project in five years 10 years 15 years is for the product to become ubiquitous just like Bitcoin has become ubiquitous something that's there people accept that it's there there's no belief that it's ever gonna go away it's it's there it's infrastructure and I'd also like for the project to become self evolving and self-sustaining so even if I go away ohk goes away even if there's major losses if one country bans something or whatever no lawsuit no death no event can undo it and furthermore there's a certain degree of inevitability about the evolution of the system so even if we have certain things not completely figured out or certain things we're a little rough people just expect that it's going to get there and it's going to get done it's almost like self-driving cars I don't really talk to a lot of people anymore who don't believe that self-driving cars are inevitable and we see all these Tesla's driving down the street and every single one of them is just a big sponge of sensor data and over time it's creating a reality where these cars will eventually drive better than human beings and the set of skeptics has gone from huge to smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller just the evolution of the Internet there was a certain degree of inevitability to that where it started where everybody was very skeptical if I'll never replace the news paper never replace the yellow pages never replace banks for these things and now you ask anybody in 2019 is of course is self-evident and they said what all these problems like when we get 5g out of course 5g will come out and will it be fast oh of course it'll be fast if you asked any sampling of people in the United States do you believe your internet speed and the quality of your internet experience will be better in 2025 or 2030 that it is today probably a hundred percent of them will say yes of course it will be better of course we'll have more there's an inevitability to the evolution and the quality of the system and not everything is like that if you ask people about health care or education in the United States and you say do you think your health care will be less expensive and better in 2030 than it is today the Americans would actually probably be pretty cynical if you asked us about Social Security our retirement program we have and you say do you think Social Security will pay more and be more solvent more viable I am more sustainable in 2030 than it is today most people would be cynical about that so inevitability is a rare thing and it's it's a very powerful thing and just the mere presence of it creates faith in the system to keep the system going even when you have regressions or hard times or events or other such things for example if some catastrophe happened an asteroid struck the earth and it knocked out two-thirds of the internet in the world there is no reality where that would just stayed dark forever no one would ever put any money on that he said will repair it will put it back together will fix it as we've seen when tsunamis have happened and cables have been clipped and other tragic events have happened so my second hope is for ADA to be inevitable in that we all know the technology is self evolving so we know that there'll be more papers published the next year we know that more code is going to be written there will be engineers it'll be scientists it'll be these people to do that and if we can achieve that then it's no longer a question of will we win it's just a question of how long does it take for the system to truly achieve its goals the third thing I'd like to see is for us to be a competitive impulse that the tag line of AI which K has always been cascading disruption and what that means is is really the first domino the butterfly effect this idea that some small perturbation to a system can have an enormous impact in the system a long term it's it's almost it's almost like putting a little droplet on something and then somehow some way that just changes everything and then you wake up five years later six years later ten years later and has a huge huge impact and so if you think about the inevitability of our system we've already changed the conversation as an ecosystem when we started no one was doing peer-review in the top ten top twenty no one no one was even talking about formal methods no one was talking about functional gramming languages and now you see dozens of projects adhering to these principles or claiming they do from harmony to Tasos to others everybody's starting to chases even aetherium is putting serious cash into setting up research centers giving out research grants the etherium fellows are writing papers these papers are going through peer review lisa is writing papers everybody's writing papers so the mere fact that we were commercially successful and we showed that the market values these things and that to compete with us you must become like us has created a cascading effect that's starting to ripple throughout the entire cryptocurrency space and while it does diminish our USP a little bit it does also mean we now benefit from all the knowledge that's being accumulated by all these other people and we don't have to pay for that there are literally now thousands of scientists who are indirectly working for whoever is best at adapting the science so if Dan Binet publishes a paper on verifiable delay functions I can take that and if it's good put it into something and that's the magic of that cascading effect and then furthermore we're all now starting to really focus in on the things that really matter as an ecosystem and think about so it's providing us great about the feedback and the quality of altcoins the quality of new projects that the threshold for them has really changed since when I entered the space in 2011 to be an altcoin was the fourth Bitcoin and really just maybe change the proof-of-work algorithm and add some more coins so you see I'm gonna go from a sha-256 to script and I'm gonna times the amount of coins by four okay that's your innovation that's that that was what we meant when we said all coin now you have projects doing sharding and completely new Viet B of T protocols and using Raptor q and and and fountain cones and all all this crazy stuff that's really cool and really interesting and things you wouldn't even think about and in there every one of them has some little thing that they've done that you'd never think I looked at I ergo the other day the Oracle platform and I read the white paper and it contained a proof of no pre mine and when you're bootstrapping a proof-of-work system it's really nice to verify that nobody privately mind for a while before a launch to get an advantage but there is a proof of no pre mine in the system it's a small little Chuck it's a beautiful little thing we recently developed a beautiful new proof of bird algorithm that doesn't even people won't even know that addresses are burned until after the fact so so there's just some magical stuff that that you see from all of these different projects and they're cross pollinating with each other it really is the era of a thousand flowers that are blooming and they're becoming very very very beautiful and if you're clever and if you really take the time to look at that field of flowers you can see unlimited detail and are really a lot of magic the other thing is that that cascading effect has created a political environment where it's safe now for people to embrace the field it was not possible five years ago for Microsoft to show up to consensus and say we're building an identity system on Bitcoin that was just simply impossible politically speaking but now not only have they done it Facebook is launching a coin Google is doing stuff everybody's involved amazon's at fault and these guys have thousands of scientists thousands of engineers billions of customers and as a consequence these things are going to enter the domain and I'm a lot more nimble than they are so whatever they come up with I'm probably going to be able to use a lot faster so while we were the first mover it created kind of a ripple effect that started bringing bigger and bigger people in started justifying the peer reviews a good idea formal methods is a good idea and to increase the funding orders of magnitude more than what we could put in and we're real proud of that and I think that the Cardinal has a project has already achieved great success in that respect I'm also really looking forward to getting proof of stake out and getting side-chains out these types of things out because we see them in the lab we read about them you understand them and it's almost like being a great architect and you write up these blueprints and you look at it you say wow that's that's gonna be magical you see and you just you just know that people are gonna love it or you're a great screenplay right or a great author and you write this wonderful book but only really comes alive when people use it and you actually see them using it and they have those experiences and they say this is incredible I've never seen anything like this this is this is a lot of fun and we just get really giddy and we get really excited within five years many of the things that I got super excited about on paper are going to be reality they're gonna be there it was almost like in the early days of aetherium when we were talking about this concept of a smart contract it wasn't real until you saw a maker Dow and gone and all these other projects and they entered market and it woke up thousands of people to have an imagination and do something I was just at University of Wyoming and I found out they taught up blockchain course and they built the voting system as as the class and in solidity to go to a university and just talk to the computer science department and find out that you're teaching undergraduate courses using programming languages and tools and techniques that just didn't even exist a few years ago and students are getting inspired and and one of them went on to start a company called like hemp chain and they want to model the supply chain of hemp of these things that's really magical and that's really exciting it's it's it's the privilege of a lifetime to see these types of things and we have a lot of magic we came up with four cardinal and it's gonna be super exciting over the next five years to see that that magic roll its way out so anyway thank you for the questions great group book female entrepreneurs all throughout Korea I think I'm going to Korea in July so I hope to see a lot of them there and I'm happy to answer questions in the future if you guys have them or want to do interviews like this please do send them my way so cheers everybody I'll talk to you soon