Mongolia Special AMA 07/16/2022

hi this is charles hoskinson broadcasting live from untamed wild mongolia live in ulaanbaatar the capital it is a beautiful day saturday the 16th 2022 for some of you the 15th and hopefully the internet holds up hopefully we're able to have a nice productive beautiful session it's been a long time since i've had a chance to have a proper ama with you guys and gals but i really do enjoy them and i love them so let's get through it i was yesterday out in ubi which is the mountainous city in the western part of the country mostly cossack with the eagle hunters and then the day before that i was out the gobi desert and i saw the flaming cliffs and i hung out with all the desert nomads and got a chance to play around with the camels and the rest of the gangs so it's been a really interesting trip the first day i was here literally got off the plane head to a presidential reception at the presidential palace i was gracious enough to get invitation i'll show you guys these presidential invitations are pretty cool so here's what it looks and then they give you all the the details and the official seal and so forth so that's that's nifty and i got a chance to hang out with us ambassador mongolia and a chance to see all the movers and shakers president welcomed all of us very warmly he still has his imperial guard so you have the horsemen with the leather armor and the bow and everything like that and the palace is actually built in a beautiful private valley so mongolia has grown a lot since we opened the market three years ago there were less than 2 000 holders of aida there's now 140 000 and a country of only 3 million people which is pretty remarkable growth considering there's very little marketing that had been done here it's just word of mouth and organic growth and jurisdiction and when we came here there were two cryptocurrency exchanges now they're about 14. a lot of nft projects a lot of really interesting things floating around everything from they want to do gold backed stable coins to art projects to restoration projects to educational initiatives one of the reasons why we're here is we did a haskell training class in mongolia right when coveted broke out and because of covet we weren't able to do it in person normally we actually fly out here our director of education comes lars brunius and he gets to learn from the local culture and ingratiate himself in that respect unfortunately it had to be done remotely and i promised that when kovid receded a bit i would come to mongolia and when the borders are open again and actually hold a proper graduation so that's what we're doing today is that we're holding and here in ub a graduation for all the haskell students that attended and finished the course we hired about i think three or so who were the best candidates from that class and our hope is to make this a recurring thing where we keep training new people we had a great meeting with the minister dinner with the minister of digital innovation and communication she's a pretty remarkable woman graduated from high school at 14. college at 18 went to oxford and now she is in charge of digital transformation for the entire country and i believe that blockchain can be a major pillar of that from everything from national id to supply chain assurances so a lot of stuff is happening and it's really cool to be here and it's cool to be back on the road i i really miss this place mongolia is just really amazing there's so many amazing things in the in the geology in the landscape it does remind me a bit about kind of a roll-up between colorado utah and wyoming and then you see the culture the kazakh culture is totally different than the desert culture and it's very different in the city of course we met the who not the w.h.o who but the hu which is a famous mongolian rock band if you guys are interested really good music they were at the presidential reception we also saw some throat singing and other things in the countryside and then some traditional kha'zik music out in the west so it's real fun to see these things when you spend some time with nomads there needs to be some reflection on the meaning of economic identity when we talk about economic identity i don't the term financial inclusion financial inclusion to me says you're welcome to be part of my system so you remove agency and autonomy from people you're saying you have to join what we have i the term instead economic identity or economic agency because it says you have equality with everybody you're allowed to live the life that you want to live to be in the place that you want to be to have the customs you want to have and you still have access to the financial markets those kha'zix eagle hunters they love what they do and for the most part they're mostly untouched by modernity modern society there's some things here and there they use facebook messenger and they have a solar panel and they use motorcycles instead of dirt bikes instead of camels and things like that to get around okay but they're just as comfortable on the back of a horse with an eagle out in the middle of nowhere as they are in the back of a motorcycle or in a city so how do you give people like that identity and agency so that they can participate in the world economy but they can stay as nomads if they choose that's really the magic of what we do as an industry and it was really reassuring to to see that we have a path to this we call it realfly and you have levels of realfly level one level two level three so the first level of real fi is that you have infrastructure so you need telecommunications energy and computing so you need the ability to move packets of information around you need devices to process them and obviously those devices require electricity to power them now if none of that is decentralized it's all controlled by one actor cryptocurrencies don't matter digital identity doesn't matter because you can be shut out by a single actor when you look at the second layer you need identity an identity has two big parts there's verification and reputation verification is i make a fact shall claim i've been to this place i have this degree i've done this thing and it's true or false reputation is a value judgment and so instead of yes no it's questions like do you trust this person is this person reliable it depends i might trust them to mow my lawn but not with my kids that type of deal again if any of that is centralized cryptocurrencies don't work because in practice all the kinds of things you'd want to do are strangled by that this is one of the reasons why i get so irritated with bitcoin maximalists because they seem to feel that just because they have this magic money that's not even money it's a digital commodity that just lives in the sky somewhere that somehow this replaces the need for a decentralized power grid and a decentralized telecommunications grids and decentralized computing and this completely obviates the need for identity systems which are required to make these things useful for commerce to work it's effectively the lubricant of it the third floor of real fire the actual applications by the way none of them run on bitcoin peer-to-peer lending marketplaces oracle's stable coins these things you have to do other weird stuff so i think a lot about the realfly stack and we keep one foot in countries like mongolia because it's a safe place for innovation you have a lot of great tech entrepreneurs here there's a lot of phenomenal companies here there's great cell phone companies like mobicom and there's zeal that's doing peer-to-peer lending there's real stuff that's happening on the other hand nine hundred thousand one-third of the country are nomads so what does that mean it means that you have a close proximity to the people you want to help but then you have access to people who can help them who also are familiar with the culture and well integrated and have stable internet and stable computing and these types of things so it's nice to be here it's very educational and it helps refine and focus the mission and it helps really push us towards improving the systems of the world for everyone everywhere and we learn a lot in the process and it inspires us in the in the process my company and the people with me and we certainly brought a lot of great people we brought harris from the governance team and tony rose from the identity team and we have all the usual suspects like jer and tam and others and some new faces as well so that's that's mongolia in a nutshell and i have a special thing to show you guys as well so mongolians always give you good gifts check that out so this is a short bow that you use on the back of a horse for all the archery practices that allowed them to be great hunters and conquer the world and yes i am going to take up mongolian horse archery at some point be a lot of fun okay first question charles constructive criticism wish you would take a look now in the first world now solutions well august the problem is that the first world doesn't need a lot of the things that we're selling and second where they do need it regulators prevent us from doing things so every single market in the financial industry is usually heavily regulated and there's good reasons for that as we've seen with celsius and luna and these other things so that regulation biases incumbents and it's very slow to allow any notion of innovation it's why you pay high fees at the bank it's why credit cards are the way that they are it's why everything is so annoying and it's why you see very few new successful entrants in the financial industry regulation they say is for consumer protection but usually it's for incumbency protection and anti-competitiveness then you look at the rest of the world and there are three billion people who are under banked or unbanked and the governments that they live under are more willing to innovate with you remove red type and allow you to try new and innovative business models now if those models are global they're peer-to-peer and they're very low cost they will work everywhere in the world including america and europe and then policy makers are going to start getting a lot of questions from their constituents of why is it the people in mongolia and ethiopia and other places have a better banking system identity system and a more fair financial system than we have in the united states and the only answer they'll be able to give is well the reason for that is that our laws protect powerful people and powerful corporate interests so you're just going to have to accept the substandard system at some point people will vote those policy makers out and the new ones will change the system to open up these markets and allow them to be a bit more fair now cynicism aside there is some progress the financial innovation act and these other things that could make the united states europe and other places really attractive and interesting markets to work in but there's a huge amount of uncertainty right now there's anti-clarity where regulators will say one thing and then say another thing through enforcement and some cases be contradictory and inconsistent so what do you do you innovate and you build global solutions and my company is very focused on the developing world cardano is a general purpose protocol anybody can use cardano at any time to build anywhere there's over a thousand dap developers doing that right now for different verticals from dexa's and so forth the vast majority of the volume of those dapps that are being deployed or are deployed on cardano are currently from european and american interests so there are certainly people that are very focused on first world now solutions but it's a much more complicated puzzle i'd say than most people let on please talk about cardano and quantum cryptography especially the announcer the announcement government quantum cryptographic schemes so the tpack is referencing the nist standards for quantum crypto big winners were the crystals framework so congratulations to lattice-based crypto and unsurprisingly sphinx which is best in class stateless hash based crypto so i did talk to nist prior to nist announcing this and they said that the full thing will come out 2023 but 2022 they've had most of the bulk of the work done now that the cryptographic primitives are standardized we are in a position where sorry there's a lot of chimes over there now that most of the cryptographic primitives have been standardized we are in a we are in a position where hardware will start being built towards it so asics will be constructed and a massive slew of research will go into the primitives that have been selected and people are going to build whole systems on top of it so it's not necessary today for the remainder of the the original cardinal roadmap to make a post-quantum cardano it was always a stretch goal but the crypto just wasn't there and the standards weren't there now that standards are there i think it would be very wise for the next five years of cardano to focus on swapping out or adding capabilities to embrace crystals the lattice-based framework so signature scheme a post-quantum vrf quantum things related to privacy and ultimately model a quantum adversary against a consensus algorithm and i think these things together will will enable basically cardano to be end to end immune to a quantum computer as far as we know it's hard to say because hardware is not there so you can't test it and say well it doesn't do anything but for known algorithms and lattice based crypto is a really cool area and there's a lot of depth to it it's more complicated and there are downsides for lattice-based cryptography and for all post-quantum crypto the downsides principally are that the key sizes are much larger the signature sizes are much larger the verification times are much longer and it does take a lot of effort to implement these things and because they're they're more involved the complexity of the cryptographic protocols means that there's a higher chance of problems from bad implementations side channel attacks backdoors and the implementations code issues where the semantical translation is not right little things like that crystals won't work from andre papa thank you armchair cryptographic expert on youtube very glad that you're here okay that's an interesting one thoughts on the hunter biden cover-up this is just a great example of of media double standards and bias when people believe something and have an agenda how easy it is for them to focus on one person but not another or to excuse the behavior of another person we all do this as humans and we all have fuck-ups in our families hunter biden is a pretty scummy fuck-up he's clearly taking videos of himself measuring drugs with hookers in different countries and he's just not a good guy that's not the problem if you have a family member a friend a son a relative who has a drug addiction or as a scumbag that's not the father's fault that's not the mother's fault that's not the brother's fault that's not fair we've gone past that in society of saying the sins of the son are sins of the father the bigger issue is are people using their relationships and their political access to monetize this is what happens in corrupt regimes oh i'm brother with the president so i can get you a meeting with them now there's always been in society a bit of tolerance for this type of behavior we all kind of accept that if you're brothers with the president maybe you have a way of introducing okay where it becomes unacceptable is if you say things like well if you give me a hundred thousand dollars then i'll introduce you to my my brother who's the president that's wrong and it's a crime it's corruption so the question is is there evidence of that occurring and you have a situation where something that should be a criminal justice investigation has become a political issue and if you're a democrat you say with no evidence at all yes and if you're a republican you say well because of the laptop yes and there's some emails now ordinarily there would be two institutions that would investigate this and provide some truth to it one institution would be the department of justice the other institution would be the media both of them have the capacity and ability to expose corruption and have done so many times the problem with hunter biden is both institutions are not trusted because they actually picked aside on the case of the media they chose to say something that was real wasn't real and censor people who attempted to explore that because they felt it could impact an election and in the case of the department of justice it happens that the father of the person they would investigate is the president who's their boss so what do you do in these situations you have an independent investigator look into it so that you have some notion of objectivity and then you take a look and see if there's corruption and there probably is because there's a character deficit there and it's easy to believe that that person went down that road and then what's happens and this shows you the consequences of propaganda with people if there are democrats listening to this right now they instantly viscerally say well what about trump what about trump you notice we're not talking about trump at all this has nothing to do with trump zero zilch this nothing to do with your most hated person with the political party you disagree with this has everything to do with the specific facts and circumstances of the specific president today and it's just a question of do we live in a nation where we're tolerant of people monetizing family connections in some cases against the best interest of the united states and if you're comfortable with that because you politically agree with the person okay if you're not comfortable with that shouldn't there be an independent investigation because there indeed is enough evidence in the public domain there people who aren't qualified being put on boards and making millions of dollars it doesn't sit right it doesn't taste right and what an ig can look into many things an independent investigator they could look into other white house administrations and perhaps that should be the standard i don't have all the answers but it's just very distasteful and it's it's just an issue where something that should be investigated by two institutions is not instead of asking the question why are those institutions not doing it and clearing people we turn it into a political issue and if you're on team blue you have a side and you're on team red you have a side hunter biden could be completely innocent of the allegations maybe maybe not i don't know i don't have all the evidence the point is there's enough there and there's enough suspicion there that a reasonable person would conduct an investigation if anything just to ensure that the president is cleared you have to hold the presidency to a very high standard because they're endowed with so much power and information and if there's compromising factors that's an issue everybody seemed to be completely okay with that assertion when trump was under investigation for nearly two years about russia collusion that was a good thing to do i remember every week on saturday night live alec baldwin would be there and they had robert de niro as robert mueller and they're talking about how he's going to go to jail and all these things and that was just the thing and totally appropriate and we were okay with that as a society but apparently we're not when the other political side does something because the people who decide norms happen to be in that camp this is not how you run a society it's not how you run an organization you start with principles and values you don't start with politics and you apply them equally to everybody and fairly to everybody and again if you feel they were not fairly applied to trump well then apply them i will remind everybody listening that a million americans have died from covet i'll remind everybody listening that our economy was badly damaged from the response to covin we now have nine percent official inflation i would argue it's 20 to 25 percent the largest wealth transfer in american history has happened for-profit companies were given billions of dollars to build products told they have no risk in deploying those products they cannot be sued and given guaranteed marketplaces for those products when we had the defense production act and we didn't have to do that no one in washington wants to conduct an investigation into the origins of coven and the response to it no congressional hearings none of this stuff apparently we just forget it move on million americans died more than world war ii but the most important investigation is the january 6 hearing right now that's where politics are at that's how people choose to spend their time hi charles will cardano be iso 222 compliant yeah i've asked about it we have a team looking at it it's a collection of standards some would be relevant to us and some would not be relevant to us so we'll we'll figure it out thanks charles for amas have you heard of canada's bill c-11 trying to regulate the internet streaming services it wouldn't surprise me i'm not familiar with that particular piece of legislation but there's been a market increase in totalitarianism up north and there seems to be a group of people there that want to run everything from cradle to grave politically i've always been a libertarian so i get uncomfortable with these things but i don't know i i don't think you should discriminate packets of information electrons and thoughts and say some are appropriate and some are not i i just always have felt that way but i'm not familiar with it so i i can't speak on it but i just know what i've seen and what i've heard from my canadian friends up north this is an example of where pop culture comes colliding in with mathematics so hi charles can you discuss how meaningful girdles and completeness theorems are what are the profound philosophical implications of these proofs it seems like these proofs speak beyond mathematics so kirk girdle and david hilbert and russell and gottlob fregay and turing and alonzo church and all these people they were on a class of mathematics where they were really thinking about the foundations of mathematics so in the 19th century and before math except for geometry was on fairly shaky foundations and it bothered the hell out of mathematicians who want to be very rigorous and very precise in what they say and so they said let's put mathematics on much more solid foundations okay so you have definitions axioms things you say are true without proof and then from those axioms you build an entire system so there is this concept of completeness which says that if you write the rules down if you have some arbitrary statement that you make in your system we usually call it a well-formed formula and that arbitrary statement can you with the things you've you've assumed to be true make an assertion about that can you prove it it's true or false in your system you're complete if for all things you can write down you can do that now there's a very closely related concept of decidability and decidability usually it's called the escheidongs problem german's terrible but means decision problem of can you create an algorithm a series of steps to reduce that well-formed formula to bedrock the axioms and derive a truth value or at least reach a decision yes no undecidable they're closely related but different problems so what the completeness theorem is basically saying the incompleteness theorem is that they have these things called girdle encoding so they use these clever numbers and these clever constructions but basically what the proof says at its core is that if you have some formal system that does the kinds of things that we like in math like arithmetic and first order logics and these things the things that like make math useful and connected to reality then what happens is that you always can construct something that's outside of the system in terms of your ability to derive a truth value for it so in other words however big your system gets you need another axiom to be able to cover something but the clever magic of girdle was that the minute you add that you can construct another thing with that axiom recursively that basically allows you to then create another statement that you can't prove so you're always in a situation where you have stuff that's outside of your system now for 70 plus years this is a known result mathematicians accept it and they say oh well that doesn't mean you can't have complete systems hilbert's formalization of geometry is a complete system that's fine it just says that the way that math is constructed right now we do not have completeness is that a problem no because these things that we can't talk about aren't meaningful for most mathematical conversations and so most mathematicians study it and ignore it it's a class you take and then you oh yeah i learned about foundations of math yeah there we go you can talk about it at a cocktail party but it's not meaningful then the philosophers got a hold of it they said this is why there's a difference between cognition and intelligence consciousness and artificial intelligence this is why man can never know the vastness of the universe this is why we can never build perfect systems because there are things that are beyond our comprehension and girdle prove this it's he didn't say anything about that math is a language it's a game you set some rules up there is a system of how you manipulate those rules and they construct up to things just so happens that that game occasionally overlaps with physics with real life stuff and when it does it's useful for real life things but there's whole fields of math that don't connect to real life things and are utterly utterly useless and you can actually construct completely different rules for math and there are mathematicians who do this they're called set theorists wooden is one of them w-o-o-d-i-n he's omega's set theory and these crazy things and he tries to construct systems where the continuum hypothesis is false a completely different rule set and you could with different rules something that's true in zfc set theory standard mathematics would not be true in the different set of rules is that okay sure it's perfectly fine it's constructed reality now i'm very interested in this topic because at the hoskins center the for formal mathematics the center that we set up at cmu we're very interested in a branch of math called constructive mathematics and we're very interested in what can you write down that can be machine understandable anything that lives in these weird girdle realities of abstractions because they can't be formulated in a formal system it's very difficult for a computer to reason about them so there's certain branches and areas of math that are intrinsically more difficult to describe in productive ways such that you can constructively get a proof that's machine verifiable so yeah it's it's useful from that side from that standpoint but it's useless from a philosophical viewpoint i think you're barking up a completely wrong tree there's a much more interesting tree which is the gap of perception how we cognate how we think how we perceive is not real relative to reality there's a gap in reality from what we see and hear from what actually is happening this is what you see in here is a constructed reality that is the best your brain can process and your brain can't process everything right and so it fills in the gaps with extrapolations but you're not actually seeing real reality cognitive neural science will tell you this and there's plenty of great books written about it that flow around they say reality is a lie so given that there's a gap a perception gap between how it really is and what we perceive that means that there's so much more beauty and nuance to the universe that if we could get extra perceptions we would maybe be able to think in different ways for example human beings we we can't process four-dimensional reality we can write it down in mathematical formulas and write books about it and we can do art and kind of imagine what four-dimensional space would look but we don't think in 4d we think in 3d but if we had hyperspatial perception maybe the universe would be a completely different animal to us there are people who are born with completely different senses than our senses synesthesia is an example of that so they perceive things differently music can be colors oh that note is blue and that note is red and and c flat c sharp is is yellow these types of things okay and synesthesia people actually if they're clever about it a lot of them become memory champions because that extra spatial that extra dimension of perception is very useful in construction of memory palaces and other memory techniques that people use there's a great book called moonwalking with einstein and wednesday is indigo blue i think is what it's called so when walking einstein is about memory and wednesdays and to go blue is about synesthesia yeah so it's an interesting thing so i i don't pay too much attention to it there are plenty of books about this most of them are written by philosophers not mathematicians but if you're really interested in the philosophy of mathematics and you want to go down that road then what you ought to do is you ought to read lectures on the philosophy of mathematics by joel david hampkins he's a professor at oxford wonderful book and it'll take you through a lot of this stuff what are your thoughts on sailor claiming cardano as a security well mike sailor is the tone vase of this cycle of him and jimmy's song of this cycle of crypto so back in the day we had tone and tone was this podcast he's still around and i like tone but he has this thing like everything's a scam it's a scam it's a scam oh it's a scam oh my god you just scam everybody's scamming you even had this thing called the scammies it was his awards ceremony the scammies so now we've got mike's salaries like bitcoin is the way again it doesn't do anything for real fi i can't build a decentralized power grid i can't build a centralized telecommunications company i can't build decentralized compute i have no identity solution it's not programmable so i don't have daps and d5 i can't even issue an asset so i have no nfts right it's all outside of that but don't worry layer two protocols that are highly centralized will somehow solve all of this great so that's great it's the best thing ever and it's so magical and who cares about the mining and all this everything else is scam and everything else is security nobody controls it it's completely decentralized far more than bitcoin has more use in utility people buy the token not to speculate which is the only thing they can do with bitcoin they buy the token to use it for stuff i don't know medical records and whatever the hell else they're doing because it is real life utility but that's a security but the thing that you only think you can do is speculate on is not i i think mike's head is all [ __ ] up and screwed up it's just one of those cases where he's he's dick deep full [ __ ] in with bitcoin and so it's gotta work if it doesn't work the way he hopes he goes bankrupt so i don't pay much attention to it and i don't think it's a productive conversation at all and frankly the most difficult toxic and useless people to engage with our bitcoin maximalists they're not intellectually honest like jimmy song saying that at any given time in a proof-of-stake system somebody can just arbitrarily take all your money and shut it down it's not honest it's it's just liable it's it's not true the protocols don't do that and they feel they have no burden of proof and evidence the statements that they make and then they say the only thing that matters is their thing even though their thing doesn't do anything just stores value okay charles what are your thoughts about the world economic forum it's a fun event to go to to spend a hell of a lot of money play private jet bingo especially amongst the environmentalists how dare you and then they show up on a private jet and have people who think they're smarter than you tell you how to run your life from cradle to grave in other words i don't fit in at all okay i i'll wear my fur in my boots there and i'll take the train they they're a special crowd i could have gone this year i said no way no how i instead i went to consensus we did send some people joel teltner and rachel epstein they both went joel is our chief legal officer and rachel does our government policy stuff in dc and they talked about law and policy because fatigue is there and these other people are there but it's it's just one of those things where a lot of very wealthy powerful people need to justify why they're in charge and they they create a reality where everybody needs their solutions and there's no accountability and feedback loop i don't it it's very distasteful and i don't think i'm ever going to go again to the world economic forum there are much better events the milken institute event mike milken say what you will about the guy he's extremely solutions oriented and very gracious super nice to me when i met him and every person i met there a lot of them were really obsessed with solving problems and you can't tell me that's not as prominent as wef i mean everybody was there even mnuchin was there i mean you had senators and congressmen there fortune favorite ceos there got to learn about goop so no not a big fan hmm hi charles i'm so sorry if you've already addressed this but if you why is your shirt flickering is it made of mithril if not would you give an update on mithral well no unfortunately i don't have a mithril shirt i wish i did be a lot of fun mithril is a great material and i wish it existed i can give you an update on mithril they're on a two-week development cadence and they've been moving along doing all their proof of concept mithril is in what's called the applied research phase so there's a collection of open questions that need to be resolved and proofs of concept that need to be done and the end result of that will be full end-to-end verification that mithril as a protocol is viable at scale and in production then what happens as mithril leaves applied research is mithral will enter into a productization phase where partners will work to integrate mithral we'll do this with lace our wallet and then we of course will work with others hopefully a dc spark with flint and the vacuum labs guys with ada light and maybe roy and so forth and then basically the goal would be designing a plugable modular interface so that mithril can be used and commoditized in that respect so phase one is is getting all the rust off and figuring out how it works and we're deep deep deep in the weeds and we've gotten a point where we feel mithral is quite viable and now there's going to be an inflection point a translation point from applied research to plugability now we've proved our processes to a point where we're able to do things very quickly we have a two week development sprint with with mithral so every two weeks i get a full report and they're answering questions at a pretty good rate so i'm optimistic that towards the end of the year that all the applied research for mithril will be done and then it's just a question what is the gap between that implementation and what we'd like to do for productization given that there's tight integration with the lice team and tight integration with the galwa developers and our developers the delta between what the applied research is doing and what will end up in market is pretty small so i don't think there's going to be a lot of latency on that turnaround hydra by the way is also an applied research project but it's following a very similar trajectory and it already has commercial partners who are working to integrate so i'm quite happy about it so for those of you who don't know mithril is a long-term play for cardano inclusive accountability so basically the idea is that if you have a cryptocurrency transaction sent to you from cardano you'd like to be able to verify two facts one that the tokens on the transaction are real and two they haven't been double spent the canonical way of verifying this is either having a full node which means that you're able to check it against your entire version of history or trusting a third party in some way to help you with that verification both are sub-optimal because the full node is very large and it's only going to get larger as cardona gets more used and sub-optimal with trusting people because the whole point of cryptos trust nobody you lack a property called inclusive accountability with mithril you can send on the wire with the transaction a proof and you should be able to check that proof with less than the full blockchain so a small amount of data several megabytes which means that cell phones can have the same level of security as a full node once you have this running so ultimately it means your light wallets can be just as secure as full node wallets that's why we've invested a lot of time effort money into trying to figure out this technology and there's some very heavy approaches like plumo which is what cello is using and what mina is doing with recursive snarks and okay but they still need an archive for the blockchain so to me it makes sense to use a simpler cryptographic primitives simpler implementation that you can bring to market your horizon that basically accomplishes the same thing in practice that these guys are doing but i don't know maybe i've been in the business too long and i'm just jaded or something do you see a way that cardano and algorand can collaborate yeah i do algorithm is very similar to cardano in terms of its philosophy they're very different in terms of technology and now that john is over at al grant i'm glad he landed at a place commensurate with his skill set i do believe through john that there's a lot of opportunities to do joint efforts we both have similar problems in post quantum crypto and actually there's some great people on the al grand side that are experts in lattices craig gentry for example is over on that side of the rainbow so i'm very optimistic that we can figure out some collaborations where and when it makes sense for both parties but remember it's two keys so even if it makes sense for us it has to make sense for them and it's one of those things where we can talk to them about it charles what about projects from luna going to polygon and not to cardona well first off if they built on luna to begin with you have to question their judgment second people go to polygon because polygon pays them people come to cardano because they like cardano that's the difference and paula guys that's true don't even try it charles what's the best method for storing key phrases i am going to do a follow-up video to my infosec video i've gotten a lot of feedback on i just haven't had a time for it i will talk about some key phrase best practice methods that can be done i'm really pushing for a standard with encrypted qr codes for cold wallet generation i think it was so powerful because the problem is what people do is they write down their keywords usually on a word document or something and print it or they print a paper wallet as a backup store but printers are insecure and they tend to keep memories so you can replay them so if somebody uses the printer you can actually reprint a lot of the things that the printer has printed before so it's not not a good approach and if you had a cryptic qr code if there was a replay attack they just get another copy of an encrypted wallet wouldn't do anything but anyway that's neither here nor there i'll i'll do another video for you guys someone call mike alfred he wanted to ask a question to charles he said on twitter well mike you're welcome to come here and ask a question man i'm willing to answer anything you ask you might not get the answer you but i'm willing to do it can you talk about oracle's coming to cardano yeah there's a lot of people building them and oracles are connected to the fossil hard fork so how about that any thoughts on mashinsky he who flies too close to the sun shall watch the wax melt from his wings and fall to the earth what was european union project iog doing that was for decentralized software updates it was a horizon 2020 program we completed it wrote a whole report and have a protocol for it charles someone who wants to work blockchain tech his career what college major is more helpful in the field math major csm major what i would do is do a cs major in two minors do a minor in math and minor in economics and think a lot about systems theory you can't go wrong with that you can do a little bit of everything just build stuff study tokenomics write code why do you own all seven multi-key sigs we don't see people just lie lie lie lie lie lie now there's a tripartite structure guys you did a great job at congress when will we go again probably going to go to the senate next time i'm working on it charles i love how you are so blunt i respect everything you and your team do for cardano all the best well thank you so much g ned i am very blunt at times that's why a lot of people don't like me and also a lot of people just seem absolutely convinced i'm the worst human being alive and they write books about it and soon to be movies about it but at the end of the day i'm just guy and i'm trying to figure it out as much as you guys are trying to figure it out it's complicated stuff we're literally rewriting the fabric of reality if you think about it and i've gone to the ends of the earth 72 countries 72 countries that's a lot and i've met so many thousands of people i've been in so many thousands of meetings all i do all day long is being one meeting another meeting read this book read that book read this report read that report prep for this i testify in congress on one hand and go and talk with the president of mongolia on the other hand it's my life these types of things and to the people who like me they say wow that's so cool the people who hate me they say it's all made up it doesn't exist or even though it's it does exist it in no way impacts anything and then it's all just an elaborate fantasy it's a bizarre space i own four companies and crypto's certainly my biggest and yet i do stuff in biotechnology and i do stuff in ag tech and i do stuff on my ranch and in all these cases i'm treated a human being with good consideration i'll just give you a great example the media in wheatland the town that i live in in wyoming they wrote an article about a restaurant that i'm opening in wheatland called nessies after the loch ness monster and i went and bought a plesiosaur skeleton by the way if you buy dinosaur bones you think crypto people are shady it's like dino bone people are the shadiest people in the world but it was a replica of a plesiosaur one too expensive but it's a beautiful replica and i'm gonna put it in the in the restaurant and the body will be in the in the basement where the whiskey bar is and then the neck because it's 40 feet long will well over 10 meters will actually go up into the into the main floor for diners at the scottish restaurant everybody's excited about it now if this was crypto and i announced i'm building nessies i would have one third of the town say nessies is a scam it doesn't exist i'd have another group of people in town say well it does exist but it'll never be completed and when it's completed it won't ever deliver anything and the food is poison and then i have another third of people that say nesses is our lord and savior and only by going to the divine will of nessies can you in any way shape or form find the true salvation and peace of society i mean crypto's weird it's so weird it's so it's so toxic at times and it's so just brutal at times just a great example would be i testified before congress not once did i mention cardano not once because i said i'm representing the industry here not my company not cardano the entire industry and why this industry is useful for everyone so i go up there and i'd like to believe i did well not a single layer one ceo not a single company in that constellation of things in the top ten said retweeted it congratulations this is good testimony not a single one you go to cryptocurrency reddit before i testified the vitriol there the hate there the statements there that were said and then afterwards they said well he did a good job but he's still a [ __ ] back i was fighting for you guys i was fighting for the industry as a whole we have to stand together or we will die as an industry the regulators aren't going to differentiate your token and coin from another token a coin bad regulation will affect every single person in this industry but that's not the maturity and mentality and mindset of the industry and instead it's it's like your thing is evil and my thing is great and anybody who disagrees with me is evil and wrong it's just bizarre and it's it's very draining at times and so you have to refresh yourself and that's why we do the community events and that's why we talk to people because in these cases what they do for you is they show you that well that's reddit and twitter and the leadership of the industry the real people who actually use the products and are excited about it by and large are good people by and large they're they're really excited about the prospect of using these things to change the world and if you if you expose yourself to that you're happy but you got to take a shower and scrub yourself off every [ __ ] time you go to these industry events and and other things because these people are just really terrible people and i don't know why our industry has accumulated so many of them certainly there's a lot of egos in medicine certainly there's a lot of egos in silicon valley but i've never seen this density of toxicity and self-righteousness and a lack of respect and appreciation for things it is what it is charles can you discuss what is the relationship between iog cardano mongolia and what are some of the ongoing projects and how is adoption mongolia going well the people led as i mentioned earlier in the ama a 140 000 uncles are using cardano in some way which is really impressive growth and adoption it would be nice to do a digital identity and a supply chain system because if you look at the needs of mongolia in the agricultural sector there are five animal types that are primarily important horses camels the dromedaries so the background excuse me the two hump camels not the one hump so you have cattle you have camels yaks you have goats and you have i believe sheep of the five agricultural animals actually horses excuse me as your agricultural animals so the goats to the most important part of mongolian agriculture because that's where the cashmere comes from gobi group is a gargantuan company and they export most of that and they sell at great prices when you look at the supply chains there's something called the third neighbor policy and there's this attempt to be able to try to export a lot of the agricultural goods the united states and other places without tariffs the problem is that they have to adhere to certain quality standards or else the usda is just not going to let that happen and so how do you prove that there needs to be a blockchain based system that enables people to to basically make statements about the life cycle of the animals and what they've gone through now there's great technology for example let me show you this there's a company called sears tag for example this link yeah so let me share my screen real quickly here share screen there we go so if you take a look at the sears tag you can actually see these little devices and they go on the ear of the cattle or the code or whatever you want and they're a full computer and they basically tell you where your animals are at they have a little solar panel to keep them going and they do a whole bunch of things mortality alerts activity monitoring the temperatures so they don't overheat these types of things this is kind of generation one iot for cattle tagging and it'd be really cool to see what we could do to get to generation generation two generation three stuff and mongolia would be a perfect place to pilot it so if you can get better coverage of the country with some form of telecommunication so maybe what world mobile is doing then you can get reliable connectivity in the most rural of places and then if you could tag every animal you could fall in the life cycle now it seems it'd be a somewhat expensive thing to do it's about there's about 80 million animals in mongolia only 3 million people that are using the agricultural sector but if you can get to that like two three dollar price point you're talking about maybe a quarter of a billion dollars for end-to-end tracking of all of the animals in the country it's really not that expensive for all things considered from a nation state viewpoint and then if you could trace the entire life cycle you can know where the animals at what they've been exposed to the geographies they've gone to the diet of plants that they've had you're not going to get milk sick from them you can know a lot about the antibiotic intake that they've had accurate logging then suddenly export makes a lot more sense so these are the kinds of things i'm very interested in and it's a great play for a tole prism because there's a track and tracing solution and an identity solution because you can give an identity to a person you can give an identity to a yak you can create a verified nft to represent an asset a ball of cashmere these types of things and it'd be a lot of fun to chase and explore that so we talked to obuna the the minister of digital transformation and a few others in the government and at some point i think we're ready to go we were scaling up to do something then covet hit and if i have to send a lot of people it just doesn't work so i said all right well just mongolia's not going anywhere let's calm down a little bit and we'll circle back to it so hopefully in 2023 we'll be able to do something pretty cool isn't that boutique considering now that most factory farmed is abomination yeah it's pretty bad and then you got two groups one that says just eat insects instead world economic forum insects are good for you and then you gotta then you get another group they're we'll just make meat in the lab so you can either have your your cylinder of salmon or you can have your your grasshoppers who flay yeah i think i'm gonna stick with the real deal guys i don't know hi charles when will the paper on decentralization be completed the term is still being thrown around the industry it's a summer project that aguilos is personally going to attend to so probably august september if i had to guess but it just depends and then the edi will be established before the end of the year and then it can be kind of kind of a guiding star for things bees more bees please not the bees not the bees if you guys get that nic cage reference congratulations you are a nerd pray for me y'all i leave for rehab this coming week and i'm scared shitless well just i don't know what you're going through but you have our thoughts and prayers do you ingest lion's mane daily how much can you explain the benefits of whether it's good for elderly cognitive ability there are there are placebo control studies from japan and other places that show that ingestion of lion's mane and the right freshness and the right amount over a gram per day does result in the creation of new nerves in the brain so neurogenesis so there's some bdnf action there and and that's directly related to improvement of cognitive decline now the studies that are out of japan they're quite small and they need more studies i'd say before you can make a definitive prescription say there's a causal relationship that the ingestion of lion's mane is actually solving a problem or slowing down a problem like dementia that said i'm very bullish and optimistic because it doesn't do any harm it's not a toxic mushroom it's quite tasty it's easy to ingest in many different forms from rata tea and powders and so forth and i grow them myself so when we have our clinic fully operational we will try to replicate the japan study and do a placebo-controlled double-blind study and we'll see if they're different in dosaging from tablets to powder to tea to raw ingestion have any indication on what we see the advantage we have is we can actually do brain scans because we have the imaging center to do that and we also are going to fully sequence the genomes everybody we do clinical trials on at my at my clinic so if we notice that particular patients are especially receptive in the data that they are telling us that then what we can do is look at and see if there's a genetic reason for that in addition to just a gross thing of of age and gender and weight and these types of things so very exciting potentially and as with all things in the supplement business you have to be careful because people tend to hype things up but like resveratrol and nad and other things there's definitely evidence that this is good for you in the case of lions man it's good for cognitive abilities and not going to do any harm taking it so try it out and see if it works for you but we don't have the clinical evidence to say definitively that lion's mane is doing something interesting just have some stuff have you seen the new cardona book i've seen that but not read but i hear it's good charles great to have you back can you explain what defines settlement time on cardano it's probabilistic finality just like bitcoin and so you just have to wait for a series of confirmations so after a collection of blocks depending upon your your risk tolerance the chance of a fork or reversal a rollback is so low that it's a safe transaction so i think the rule of thumb we had in the olden days was 15 confirmations but i don't recall what we've set that parameter at now and it changes and there's going to be a lot of changes with some of the new fast settlement papers that we've been writing and some of we've already released like ledger combiners ledger redux and then also with the input endorsers design which will have a dramatic change so currently it's ephemeral but it's very fast i mean you have equivalent finality to bitcoin in a matter of minutes whereas bitcoin takes hours and that was always the benchmark and i think for most applications that's fine if you need a little faster there are some hacks that you can do to improve your trust model and then when we get the new papers we'll get bft style instant finality hi charles do you meditate or practice mindfulness regularly or with meditation treat a one-off thing love you i i do meditate but not as often as i need to and right now i'm really involved in neural stimulation so you actually map the brain with an eeg and then you attach electrodes just different parts and you shock it and then neurons are kind of electrophilic so they mimic the signals that they get so if you shock it just the right way you can shock the brain into different states you can make a person feel seasick or drunk or have their head spin or you can knock them into a hyper focused state a deep deep alpha state 13 to 15 hertz you're in a flow state so i've been doing a lot of experimentation with that with some domain experts hi charles can stake pools steal our ada if they're bad people no we designed it so that they couldn't you delegate they never have access to your item it's a non-custodial staking charles i've been part of cardano from day one something that perturbs me is that you and vitalik are biting at each other's ankles like yorkshire terriers give me some evidence of it give me like what am i doing man outside of a a levity here and there when it's brought up i seldom think about the guy talk about the guy and you're the one talking about him i have no issue with him i see him from time to time at events and shake his hand say hey how you doing one minute two minute conversation move on i was not my best friend in the whole wide world we're not going fishing together on the weekends not holding hands while walking horses off into the sunset but at the same time i don't really mind i think the rivalry has been completely manufactured by the crypto media for some bizarre damn reason and it's used to sell books so i i don't have an issue but if you give me some specific issues here and there i mean we've disagreed strongly about consensus design and certainly there's some things that i think ethereum have done that have been tremendously counterproductive and there are specific facts you can point to the creation of solidity the way it was built and the way smart contracts are designed on ethereum tend to lead to insecure smart contracts there were 10.

5 billion dollars in hacks last year a lot of them on ethereum a lot of them do to the way that they've done things i fee and lean fundamentally disagree with the accounts model i think extended utxo is the only way to go long term for the kinds of things that we want to do in the cryptocurrency space let the market decide what they value and we're competing in that respect but it's not personal what have i ever commented on intelligence appearance character or these other things on the other hand the ethereum side sure as hell has commented on my character as a human being with sketchy evidence at best how snoop ben i think champs coming up to the ranch here in a little bit when i get back from mongolia snoop's good we're gonna do a music video man it's gonna be good we'll figure this out gotta get the blackhawk in it although i think we need to get an exhibition tag for it so if the faa i'm just gonna hire [ __ ] eminem we're just gonna redo the without me song and be the faa won't let me be just rewrite all the lyrics come on guys i love those cattle tags why not here in the united states i'd love to in the united states and i think actually we can it'd be fun to do it wyoming and we're looking into it there was beef chain and we did talk to them for a long time in i have my bison i have 500 of them i do need to tag them for crypto bison so we'll we'll look into it charles pardon my ignorance was ihk founded in hong kong ihk was a hong kong holding company and we still have a name from the legacy but we no longer have any hong kong infrastructure at all it's now us-based c-corporation and i was not living in hong kong there were two places you would start companies in asia singapore and hong kong hong kong is a real city with real people singapore is the dubai of asia it's like all one giant mall it's very pretty and it's very fake hong kong you would be in like kowloon and you'd go to some fish store get something to eat and you'd order a fish and you just they just take it out of a tank and go hit it on the sidewalk and go cook it for you the guy sitting to your left is like some old chinese billionaire and he's eaten at the same place for 45 years and this is where he eats lunch he's the third richest guy in the entire city he's just sitting there eating a fish next to you that they've just killed on the sidewalk and they cook it's a real city it's very gringy and i like that but it's unfortunately changed quite a bit in the last five years and it's become basically a proxy of china to the extent that there's no political autonomy or differentiation i would not recommend starting a company in hong kong these days i heard you were collaborating with solana it seems you were quite a fan of their network collaboration with solano would actually make a lot of sense my brother a little bit of lore in the family my brother before he became a doctor actually ran a very successful business it was called nintendo repair dot com and if you guys probably on way back machine you can see all of his inventory and the things that he did but let me tell you he he did some great work he would make for the old nes's like custom molds and and actually create the new lids because the lids would always break on the old super old nintendos and he actually got new pins made for the nintendos because the the original ones were made of too flimsy of a metal and what happens when you push the game in too hard it would bend the contacts that's why when you blow on the cartridge it actually makes contact better because it provides a kind of a conductive fluid for it to go from the cartridge to those little pins that get bent so the ones that my brother would make were made out of a stronger material so when you put them in it would fix the the flashing light problem on the nes and so forth so i was thinking since solana comes from that world that maybe there's some legacy there we can figure out how to turn it on and off take it in and out blowing the cartridge these types of things i don't know it might be possible but my brother doesn't do nintendo stuff anymore he's a doctor hi charles how is iohk prepared for perpetual recession we have strong economic moat and our business lines are strong this nice part about gov tech is that you have long arc relationships the ethiopia relationships the multi-year relationship so we have plenty of things we do and those things are stable obviously recession forever would not be good for anybody but we're we're doing okay we're not doing any mass layoffs or anything like that we're continuing to hire i think we have over 100 open roles right now inside the company that we're hiring for and those roles are of course important but more broadly the problem with this recession is that it's impossible to know where the bottom is we have an issue where the government's just not being honest first inflation is transitory and it's not going to happen and the overwhelming majority of economists agree that there's no inflation and it's like everybody's you're [ __ ] crazy you destroyed all the supply chains in the world and you've printed trillions of dollars out of thin air to shore up the economy of course prices are going to go up you're you just you don't need a [ __ ] phd for to figure this out guys it's very simple stuff so then they then they say well if you don't count the price of energy and meat chicken it's meat like like like pork chicken and beef prices are great so all the things that we have stockpiles of still somehow have consistent prices but the things we have to produce under the new regime are more expensive and you're saying inflation is transitory so there's no honesty there so if there's no honesty from the government authorities then you just kind of have to put your finger up there and say how do i feel what do i think i think tech got hyper overvalued during the the covent era and these unrealistic valuations are coming down i think that there's still value in producing things that's why i'm the ag tech but it's not lost on me that hay is 350 dollars a ton right now it's nuts it's also not lost on me that there's no reason for diesel and gasoline to be at these prices russia doesn't have that much of an influence on the global supply markets there are other reasons for it and depending on people's politics they'll either engage with those reasons or not so given that everything's become so political and truth is a rare commodity these days we we just navigate as we see fit and we of course are more cautious and less ambitious about certain programs and there's things i'd love to to do like for a long time i've wanted to create my own trusted hardware modules that are open source we're probably not going to do that until there's a bull market there's a lot of products that i would like to pursue and launch and think about and be fun to explore we're probably going to scale those back until this recession goes away and it'll be nice to live in an economic environment where i felt that the government's my partner in helping me succeed and instead of an adversary that the best case scenario is you can avoid the vampire as it rummages through your house and steals your [ __ ] and the worst case is it discovers you and kills you that's the current relationship we have with the u.