Surprise AMA 08/30/2020

hi everybody this is charles hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny colorado always warm always sunny sometimes colorado good to be here today is august 30th 2020 it's going to be a fun fun day sunday dogs are barking for no particular reason who knows and it's a lazy sunday this last week of august next week is september which is going to be a busy busy month we accomplished a lot this month it's been a lot of fun a huge amount of software was written a massive amount of work went into getting the exchanges where they need to go getting the wallet upgraded cardano's node 1.19 is a hundred times faster in some benchmarks from the 1.18 node it's now in full distribution so it's on mainnet and it's also on flight yoroy went through a heck of a time getting upgraded but they're almost where they need to be and now ledger and trezor's support is fully enabled for adalight i believe treasurer's support is fully enabled for uroy and i think ledger supports work on its way through and we're already in negotiations for a big big firmware update for stake pool operators to allow staple operators to use a ledger treasure device as part of their security scheme so that they can air gap keys without having to go out of their way for that i'm also interested in things like multisig pledge to see if we also can do kez on the ledger and that's going to be a lot of work so they're betting that out we're also bidding out a multi-sig contract with apix and they're discussing architecture with us on how to bring multi-sig into we have scripting support for the low level but we need to build a beautiful user experience for it so they're going to bid that out pull it into daedalus qr code center hardware wallet center all these things are coming soon so the wheels are moving another thing is that there's been a lot of debate and discussion the community already a lot of consternation from the smaller stake pool operators and is exactly what i expected to see people care enough about cardano to have divergent opinions about where our parameters should go that means people understand the parameters they have an opinion about it they're thinking deep about it and that's exactly what you want to see so we're still collecting those ideas and we're thinking ourselves and there's a process going on about how is cake going to evolve and pledge going to evolve and so forth every five days the network continues to get more and more decentralized as i mentioned it's a slow drum beat and it just gets louder and louder and louder and louder as we get closer and closer to d equals zero we're almost at a point where 25 of all blocks are made by the community just a few weeks ago it was none that tells you how significant the movement is already and september is the first month where we're going to begin rolling out the peer-to-peer implementation so the peer-to-peer governor is is ready to go and they're turning things on and the network team is going to be working hard half the team is off for september excuse me for august so we decided not to to do it in august but push it to september but that should take about eight weeks from start to finish might have a longer tail depending upon what we find as we roll it out but that will considerably improve performance in certain respects or certain people get unlucky and they connect the bad relays and also it's a truly fully decentralized network when you're no longer using relays from state pool operators or from us but also every single person running a full node is now contributing to the system that's a really beautiful thing so d is moving in the right direction peer-to-peer is moving in the right direction we're having a great discussion about economic parameters and that's moving the right direction there's already discussion about stake pool guilds there's already discussion about delegation portfolios i've made the highest priority to get one-to-many delegation where it needs to go so there's a huge product effort right now to get that done as quickly as we can i and that's just one side of the organization so that's the shelly side of the organization meanwhile in gogan land a different group of people are waking up having the whip on them and we're talking about basically a three-phase roll out so first you have native assets second you have polluted foundations and third you have the pluto application framework now native assets are being able to go from a single asset ledger to a multi-asset ledger and that's a lot of work and there's a lot to do there pluto foundations is kind of the jvm versus java it's saying that it's the base foundations the core of the language so if you can write assembly or you can write the higher level representations of it you'll be able to write smart contracts but that's not exactly super user friendly but you have to have the jvm to have java you have to have the clr to have c sharp et cetera et cetera so it makes sense to roll that out first and then put on top of it the beautiful development experience and so forth and they're not necessarily mutually exclusive you do them in parallel just they have all kinds of things working their way through so big big conversations going on a lot of implementation work going on especially with de-risking the ledger team and that's not ledger the hardware device that's ledger the cardinal node ledger so the ledger rules of the system there's an enormous set of work there and we're adding more people we're trying to shift things around so we can accelerate things as much as we can because we have to kind of pull in all this gogan work into shelley now that shell is here and shelley's ready to receive it so ramon our ceto has taken a a personal interest in this and he's micromanaging that process so he's personally involved in the resourcing he's personally involved in the day-to-day meetings normally you don't have a cto do that but we want to get this out as quickly as we can so we're making sure that our best people are micromanaging the process to get it done and a huge amount to do i'm also starting to give out some fixed cost contracts and bring in old people we've begun pretty significant negotiations with runtime verification to upgrade and modernize yella and also start restart the k and spc work for a variety of reasons internally but part of these conversations give us some insight into what the testing frameworks on the ethereum side look and they've been working with al goran and tazos and all these other people so they're pretty good understanding of what the development experience is across the board for all of the third generation platforms so we're talking to their guys and we're saying okay where do we need to sit for cardano for us to be competitive in that respect we kind of have an internal idea and we have an idea from the haskell space because there's 35 years of knowledge and experience there but it's really good to do a competitive cross-section and look at your competitors and say okay well what are they really prioritizing and looking and so it's convenient to talk to tool builders in the space because through their open source repos and just the projects that they've been working on it gives you a good sense of where things sit and there's some great frameworks like truffle replacements called firefly for example that's a really cool thing so we'll make an announcement a later date when we've signed something but that's looking promising we're also going to see if we can bring all the haskell stuff into the cardano ecosystem because as i've mentioned there's 35 years of history there i want to make sure that that works on day one because that stuff is amazing and it's what allowed us to launch shelley without the whole system exploding in our face so i would like those tools to exist on your side the developer's side another thing is we're going to build a dsl for smart contract specification so basically this opens up the prospect of certified contracts so you have a design and then you have the implementation you'll be able to prove that the implementation is correct against the design this has been done several times like for example certified erc20 tokens and so forth it's generally very hard because the tools are not so good they require a lot of domain expertise and they're very heavy so there's a lot of discussion about how do we build a lightweight specification dsl that can sit in tandem with your contract and then you can verify properties about it so that you can use it as a basis for model checking and quick check and all these types of things that exist in the formal methods community and you can verify that your contract is right so there's going to be a whole thread of work that's starting to really rev up we've already done a lot of that with marlow because marlo's are turning incomplete dsl means you can use sat solvers and all this other stuff to verify that it's right we did that bulgaria years ago when we planted those trees we actually wrote a contract and used a set solver to prove it but in a more generic sense with plutus for example it's a little harder so there's some work there we're also working on the imperative side so that you have a procedural imperative way of doing development and not just functional so you'll have a javascript s like experience at some point and so i which k gave a grant to immune for around 50k to explore that and then based on their results we'll accelerate speed up that work stream to make sure that that comes in at a reasonable competitive time period so that's on the infrastructure level but then there's d5 d5 d5 d5 d5 and i've become very obsessed with d5 lately we've looked at the entire competitive d5 space hundreds of pages of reports lots of interviews lots of discussions we also looked at all the most popular d5 things already some of it's starting to leak out despite our efforts to keep it a little boxed in because we'd like some announcements for example we are partnered with emergo and we're right now working on the logistics of a stable coin with them that we're going to be building first on ergo to verify everything works correctly and then we'll pull it over into cardano and this is going to be an algorithmic stable coin we think it'll be significantly better than maker dow that's just one of many d5 things that are going on right now but we're not going to announce any of that until a little bit later in terms of marketing this week we have a marketing director coming on board io global we spent months interviewing people people from fortune 500 companies people from the startup sphere the particular candidate liza she has more than 20 years of experience a really brilliant gal who has a great background and i think she's going to fit very well in our culture we had so many really qualified people for that job it was initially quite hard until we interviewed her and we said this looks just right and she's a direct report to me i don't have that many direct reports but she reports to me and we're going to focus a lot on product marketing and comparison marketing so product marketing in particular we're looking at things like what is auroboros what is pluto's what is extended utxo what is the network stack that we have and why is it better and compare and contrast it to l grant and tazos and eos and it's the goal is to create very understandable product marketing content that the community can use to to really showcase what we've built we spent five years doing this we're really proud we're really excited we're really fired up about it the problem is it's a bit obfuscated by complexity because it all lives in the world of math and science and peer review stuff and engineering and i'm sorry you can't just give a person a formal specification and say oh here you go it's self-evident now you need to really put the effort and time in to get it where it needs to go so she's the first of many hires we're hiring a dedicated dev experience person to worry about acid for open source projects specifically for pluto's oriented projects so asset is developer acquisition developer collaboration developer incentives and at application deployment you have to have a strategy for that if you're going to scale and we think we have some really good ideas but we now has come to make sure that someone is directly accountable for it so i've taken a keen interest in this and we will make sure it gets done the foundation's also doing their own things as well on acid and i think probably the breakdown is going to be that we take a more floss and smaller oriented approach and they'll probably focus more on fortune 500 which is great because they have a lot of great people there that are very fortune 500 obsessed and i think we can get some great adoption in those circles emergo is also doing something so we're going to kind of divide and conquer and try to cast as broad of a net as possible but all that's coming down the pipe and you're going to see a lot of great output from that it's important to understand that firms like mccann that was retained by the foundation and it helped them get cardano.org where it needed to go and i think that was a good output but io global we haven't done enormous amounts of product campaign or direct consumer marketing for cardone yet so this is kind of new to us and that's why we brought on such a strong marketing director and i think the time has come for us to really push hard on that because we're getting to a point where everything's turning on from voltaire to gogan and there are very real differences in what we've done from where the market is currently at and i think those differences need to be communicated because people really need to understand how special cardano is above and beyond the words peer review and formal methods and good engineering and so forth it's really important that people understand specifics of why it's better and what it does differently and how we roll it out and so forth and i think that that's going to get people very excited voltaire is coming along great in the month of september ballots are going to come through the dc is going to open up and blossom up the dc fund and for the first time ever the blockchain is going to start paying people it's going to start rolling out money to projects ideas as our community begins to participate and every six to eight weeks that's going to continue and grow and grow and grow and we have a huge group of people that are just thinking about experiences we have a cell phone app it'll get into data lists hopefully you'll get into your roy as well so we'll have a lot of great interfaces for voting and collaboration and communication and we'll just keep adding more voting systems and more concepts into that framework and it evolved over time to a point where it can comfortably run the entire cardano ecosystem so i'm really happy about that it's been a difficult project to can i get really where it needed to be and there was an enormous amount of work that had to go into it and there's a really complicated crypto but that's okay we worry about complicated crypto that's our job you guys worry about getting car down onto the next step that's our job together okay so a lot going on there a lot to think about there overall network is stable and really good and august was a very successful month it was a frustrating month because not everything worked as well as it could but on the other hand shelly shipped and people are running the network and to an extent that they have an opinion on how the network should be running sometimes that's divergent from ours think about that it's it's pretty amazing not all of our critics beat the hell out of us for a long time saying we'd never even be here and now that we're here they'd say oh here was easy the next step is hard no here was hard make no mistake very very hard took years and the next step is fun the next step is where we get to create and we get to produce and do some cool stuff negotiating a lot of deals under the hood lots of strategic partnerships under the hood we'll probably make an announcement towards the end of the month of when the gogan summit is going to be we did with the shelley summit before and we'll try to make that just as big shelley's summit with over 10 000 people maybe we can do 20 for gogan dial it up take it up keep it going keep pushing forward yeah we need to we need to keep this train rolling one last thing on the d5 in particular we are i've taken a very keen interest in it and as i mentioned i don't have a hell of a lot of direct reports marketing is now but i'm also directly involved in a lot of the d5 discussions that we have and trying to make sure that those get to the next level they're properly resourced they have the right teams behind them and that they're moving quickly the reality is that first mover advantage is actually a disadvantage in d5 those network effects were ephemeral and often covered with mistakes and scars and explosions you actually want to be in the imitator the second mover category for d5 and i think we'll have a lot more luck than the first movers did in the space and there'll be a mass exodus because those first mover architectures and designs are just too inflexible and cardinal's much better suited as a platform so that's what 2021 is going to be about there's going to be a lot of that fighting and a lot of that pushing we're we're in it to win it guys we're real excited about it oh yeah one last thing bittrex we've been working with their engineers they've been working with us the principal cause of the issues is that bittrex was the very first exchange to list ada so they were using the oldest and the worst software and what happened is the longer that that software ran the more fragmented and bald up and gummed up and gucked up it got and when we switched over to the byron reboot and the first time the exchanges got access to that in it was in february of this year most of the exchanges migrated to that and so the delta between the byron reboot software and shelly was not really significant so most exchanges in a week to two weeks were able to migrate over bittrex stayed on the older software because when they tried to migrate they had some issues with it and they said well we'll come back to it and so now they're paying that migration cost with us today and it's nobody's fault it's just it is what it is it's reality and they've been working hand in glove with us to try to untangle that ball and get things where they need to go so the status is that the software is working it's running it's just there's some performance issues with it having to do with address creation and coin selection that make it really not in a position where it can run in a production environment so what we've done is we've created a special test suite specifically for the replicate what's going on with their wallet and we have a wallet on our side which has about two percent of all the ada and test net on it and we're doing a bunch of stuff to try to emulate their environment and get a better understanding of why those performance slowdowns exist because they're very difficult to replicate with our normal test suite we don't it's just hard to replicate that and we're getting to a point where we're able to replicate things and get a deeper portfolio profiling understanding and once we have that what we can do is figure out where exactly this issue is occurring and get a proper migration done the good news is that once that's finished off it's done forever and they fully migrated everything turns back on the even better news is that that tech is the exact same tech that's going to live in your wallets when we update the wallet back end and the note meaning if you ever got to a point where your cardinal wallet has hundreds of thousands of accounts and they're all like tens of thousands of transactions your desktop client would actually be able to support that so you're using enterprise grade software so there's a little bit there and it's unfortunate and these things happen with all upgrade tails and so and we we do our best to work our way through them but the good news is it's a finite thing it's a ball of string and we're kind of running out of string and it's a one-time thing so when for example we go from shelley to gogan there's going to be very little change in that for the listing experience and so what that effectively means is that the exchanges should probably be when the hard fork accommodator event occurs green the day of as opposed to some being down for weeks for example it's just when we went from byron to shelley we weren't just going from one design to another design we were going from a very bad design to a really good design and all the consequences of that very bad design and history and years of operation to a really good design and so when we go from shelley to gogan we're going from a really good design to a really good design with a lot of foresight about how to do these upgrades so all things considered that there's been no network disruption nothing went down overall that's that's pretty good but unfortunately some things get beaten up along the way and this is just one of them but i really admire the patience and the level of cooperation that they've had and and i understand how deeply frustrating can be as a district's customer and i'm deeply frustrated too because i want everything to work perfectly and i want everybody to be happy occasionally this stuff just comes up so we're not sleeping on the job and they're certainly not we're working together and people are every single day waking up analyzing things reading logs issuing patches and we went from dozens of problems to just one major problem and that we have a pretty good understanding of and we're kind of working our way through so that's the bittrex situation hopefully i'll have some better news next week i i was expecting something this week but unfortunately we just ran out of time and hopefully next week i can i'll have something really good to say about it and be really nice before september but we'll see it is what it is okay hey rick [Music] all right let's see what we got going on here it's an ama i talked for 22 minutes without getting to your questions i'm a bad man lambo from bill gates bill gates does not have a lambo he's a porsche man yeah i think he has a 918. yeah i'm not sure what the issue with bit panda is i talked to my exchange people and there hasn't been good communication there so i just really don't know what the issue is there but i'll talk to mel again and the rest of the gang again on monday i have meetings three times a week on that this is a good question what's cardona's plan on interoperability i understand there will be new projects start on cardano but there are already so many ongoing projects in ethereum can those projects move to cardano easily guys i get criticized a lot for the work that i do with ethereum classic but if you think about it doesn't the fact that we're working on ethereum classic and we're in that ecosystem give the organization a mastery of ethereum that very few companies have i mean there's not many companies floating around the world that build ethereum wallets in full ethereum nodes and actually understand the evm to a level or they can write it from scratch and scala so the fact that we built mantis means that we consensus parity tech and a few other companies are kind of on equal footing of knowing the good the bad and the ugly of ethereum solidity and everything in that ecosystem so if anything it's a huge competitive advantage to do that it's almost like in the olden days of espionage whatever you captured a tank or a plane or a helicopter of your opposing government you sent it to a base and your scientists and engineers would disassemble it so they can understand the capabilities of the technology well we've done the exact same thing in that respect with ethereum classic by building a full ethereum node we kind of have targets of what aetherium can and cannot do how it scales where it can't scale and these types of things so in terms of interoperability that's kind of stage one is know your interoperability targets and understand them at the deepest possible level two you need to demonstrate cross-ledger interoperability you do that through collaboration you do so for example wrapped litecoin wrapped bitcoin cash wrapped etc these aren't buzzwords these are things that i would love to see in the next 12 24 months so by participating in these communities we can influence things in a way where it moves in that direction and our system can talk to their systems and they don't have to fundamentally change to be able to use voltaire or our smart contract system and that will generate excess revenue for stick pull operators and for delegators good for everybody more transaction volume more use and utility for the system that's the point that's what interoperability is all about now to the specifics of the question about d5 projects there these projects are ephemeral they live usually now on multiple ledgers and it's a cost security performance question for where their home is going to be and what we're going to do in 2021 is make the case that when they look at cost performance and security we're going to win in every category against ethereum and potentially ethereum two okay and what that means is that it makes a lot of sense for them to live on our chain because we give them more and then through the interoperability bridges that we've constructed be able to still interface with customers on other chains so they get the best of both worlds they don't have to give up what they've gained but they get a much better home we've given them a glass of ice water while they live in hell so that's what we're going to do and so we'll have a lot more to say about that a little bit etc 51 attack time to let etc go i did charles well they have no leadership at the moment so they said guys we want to be completely nrk complete decentralization no leaders no nothing no vision we're just as a decentralized ecosystem like bitcoin going to come together figure it all out no funding source and we'll get it done [Music] and i said guys if you do this years and years and years and years are going to pass by and you're going to be at the exact same place they said no no it'll evolve and grow we're going to rise a phoenix ethereum is going to fail ethereum classic is going to grow it's okay so i left years went by i come back and i said from where i left to where i came in it's basically the same place market caps at the same place the hash rate is five times lower there's nothing running on the chain and that community is still there some have seen the light and they've woken up and they said holy moly what are we doing there's al grand there's polka dot there's eos there's tazos there's f2 there's bitcoin with taproot there are dozens of really strong options here some that actually overlap with the values of our ecosystem which are better platforms than us to deploy things on and every week it seems like there's a 51 attack and we're losing liquidity and some people have recognized the now is the time to actually put a flag down and say this ecosystem is worth saving let's invest in the people who will build the things to save us by embracing a treasury system other people have said no no no we have a road map we put a million dollars into unicef and we're doing stuff and we copy paste ethereum with clients we didn't even build and that'll that'll get us where we need to go and we'll wake up tomorrow and we'll we'll have 10 billion dollar market cap and everything will be great oh and don't worry about these 51 attacks we'll just borrow security from another system whether it be variable lock or per card or a checkpointing system that's like putting something on life support on a ventilator it's easy to put them on it's really hard to take them off if they're very sick and they usually die on the ventilator okay so what's the exit strategy once you've embraced consensus from an alternative system what are the philosophical implications of that that group of people have no solutions no answers just anybody who opposes them they'll go tell the media they speak for everybody and attack us so what we're just telling people vote at this point i does not care i just don't i say guys we're going to propose a road map we're going to show you who we are we've already written two ecips we've submitted them they had the gall to say that we didn't but we did and they're publicly available everybody can see them and if you like what we've done download the mantis client if you don't stick with them and if enough people download that we'll hard fork if not well okay it's clear this ecosystem wants to stay in the past and it's very clear that they have no desire to innovate but at least we can then leave and say we tried and that every single person who is in that ecosystem was given a choice that's what etc was always about to me it wasn't about killing eth and eth is wrong and atc is right he was saying that there were two philosophies and the choice needed to exist and so now it's there again and come november people have that choice they can make that choice and they can decide what to do and we'll see how many people want to go along with that it's in everybody's best interest for etc to survive and thrive and become a prominent ecosystem with its own community and for that community to get along with our community and the cardinal side and other communities including ethereum itself it's in no one's best interest for something that people have spent years of their life on and money on just collapse and die and burn into the ground because of arrogance and ego and bizarre co-option of values really isn't and so wherever possible of course we're going to try to save something and be there and at the end of the day if people go along with what we say here's what's going to happen come q1 of 2021 there'll be three clients three choices with three independent teams all working together and i'll cover the beer and they're gonna figure out a beautiful roadmap 2021 for etc to go and do something unique to that ecosystem to the values of that ecosystem which is complementary to other systems the f2s and the cardano's and so forth and it'll have real value and the people in that community will be doing real things and it will never be called a copy paste coin because it will never have to copy paste things from ethereum it'll be doing its own thing living its own life moving in its own direction that's what i'd like to see sustainability independence and vision exist and we'll find out what happens this is a good ques this is a good comment right here i've been holding etc for years now but i'm noping the [ __ ] out now all exchanges need confirmations from multiple days cracking like two weeks bittrex like five days i'm still waiting exactly you're not alone you're absolutely not alone and people are losing faith every day years and years and years of support and they keep being told it's going to be different just do the same thing and it's going to be different just do the same thing it's going to be different i'm sorry if we did that in the cardano ecosystem we'd be dead by now we had to show real progress we showed the papers we showed the code and we showed the events we showed the hard forks we showed the wallets and yeah it didn't always work and people weren't always happy but we woke up every day and there was clear defined progress and while things were frustrating they got better and there's vision we know where this technology can take us we know how to build this technology and damn it we're competing i guarantee you the people on the ethereum side they wake up every day in a cold sweat if just thinking oh god if they can pull off the road map we're done and by the way this polka dot stuff kevin cites our papers if you look at his papers some of them are based on ours okay they got great engineers and they're good enough to know how good our people are enough to embrace some of the ideas that we have so a lot of people the space admire respect what we've done with cardano and we've been not static by any means necessary you can look at any cross section of the product and you can see growth in history there's been very frustrating setbacks there's been very frustrating delays no more or no one has been more frustrated than me about that stuff but jesus we never stopped we were relentless and what we're just getting started i mean the scale at which we do things keeps to growing the amount of people working on the product keeps growing the community's working on the product there are thousands of people waking up every day who've made their life cardano's life and we're going to wake up in a few months it'll be tens of thousands and we're going to wake up in a few years to be hundreds of thousands and then millions of people you can't stop that okay cardado will be a financial operating system which billions of people live within that's the goal and that's what we're going to keep doing we won't stop until we get there that's what's called a vision and you're willing to sacrifice for that vision and push for that vision you look at etc and you say what's the vision you're against something that happened it's like running against somebody biden runs against trump he said i'm not trump okay i can hate trump and let's say you win and he gets into office and he's like okay i am not trump we're like yes okay you're not trump but but but what next what's the vision where where are we going what are we doing it's like well i got rid of the guy it's like okay but where are we going what's the next thing we're doing right you can see the difference so say we don't support the dow hack okay great so where are we gonna go you can't say vitalik's vision you just you just got rid of the guy he fired him like fork the chain said we don't want that vision so where do we go what do we do decentralized okay and so people should build stuff on that platform with no vision so let's go get one let's go build one let's do it together and the only way you get there if you don't want a dictator and a cult of personality is by having competing independent teams that are truly independent from each other working towards something and each and every one of them has a voice and the freedom to use that voice and they don't feel scared about it they'll get their funding cut off if they say the wrong thing the only way you accommodate that with an ecosystem like that is through a treasury it's pretty common sense you have a problem when people tell you to do things that aren't common sense they they just tell you go on this bizarre tangents off into the distance and you can't connect the dots but they said don't worry about that it's okay it'll all work out we'll get there guys we'll figure that out thoughts on mandatory vaccines never never never never i am against mandatory medical treatments you should never ever be forced to take a pill or a vaccine i think vaccines are fundamentally good things and they've changed the human race and that's why i don't have to worry about polio and smallpox but i do think it's wrong for a government tell me take a medicine it's my body it's my life they say oh but that's public health it's okay so then make the case that i should take it obesity's public health what are they going to do mandatory diets force people to go on diets you have people die from obesity related conditions in the united states is horrific type 2 diabetes heart disease atherosclerosis what about smoking and alcoholism that's pretty terrible too millions of people die as a consequence of those conditions over any given 10-year period of history so don't tell me mandatory vaccines you're nuts now will i get a coronavirus vaccine probably if anything because i'm going to need one to travel and i'm a ceo i have to travel so we'll look at where the science goes and if something's proven safe and effective i'll take it and then get back to work [Music] want your language choice for plutus limit adoption if programmers have to learn a little new language in order to develop smart contracts surely they'll choose a competitor where it's easier and quicker yeah they definitely chose a competitor where they had to learn objective c and swift to write iphone applications and they will definitely choose a competitor when they had to abandon java and c and c plus plus and write applications in javascript that new language there and they'll definitely choose a competitor when they had to learn solidity to write ethereum applications yeah and it's not about the language a competent developer can pick up a language quickly it's more about the ecosystem and what it does the totality of the experience that's why i keep using the word acid so acquisition if we have plutus and plutus looks a lot like haskell then i say let me go to that group and see how we can talk to those people to get involved in our space a lot of haskell developers are fintech people they work for banks they work for exchanges the functional programming world is extensively used in the financial industry there's a very famous firm on wall street called jane street which exclusively writes in oh camel barclays bank has a huge household department okay so there's a lot of people in those circles quite bright they really get it by the way there's a lot of functional stuff in imperative languages for example there are scala developers enclosure developers and have sharp developers and even in the languages like javascript you have frameworks like ramda and immutable and so forth they exist so you go talk to those people that already know what a funk door is and know what a monad is and they understand about maps and filters and tail recursion and memoization and so forth they kind of get it and then all you're doing is saying it's a new syntax okay and if you have good tooling it's easy for them to come in you don't need everybody you just need the right people in the room 50 to 100 solid ones that can do 50 to 100 solid projects to get you where you need to go collaboration to see an asset is about how we work with them so when they have a problem do they go to stock exchange and beg for help or do they just call us and we can answer that question can we provide tutorials can we provide great educational content and so forth incentives is saying there's a cost to retooling there's a cost to investing in the ecosystem so make sure that they don't bear that cost so that they can focus on their idea and deployment is saying can they get that before customers they want to have in communities that they want to have this is where interoperability is super important so there is no silver bullet there is no way to get it completely done right but it's been done dozens of times and anybody who's got a monopoly today in tech call me in 10 years for example in 2006 you'd be like how the hell do we beat palm and nokia and blackberry these guys are so strong where are we at today and in 1995 you'd be like god how do we get rid of these microsoft people they're such a strong monopoly man how do we undo the yahoo search monopoly oh god netscape is so strong how do we how do we stop netscape they have a they're dominating the browser market oh aol is the world's strongest isp how do we undo the aol monopoly no one will transition from that the only constant the only thing that never changes in technology is that things change okay everybody's always looking for the next big thing and we are that [Music] and you all remember aol except for you kids you all remember going to barnes and noble reporters and having those little aol cds or floppy disks and they were there they just give them out for free you all remember that come on now charles what's the likelihood of guessing 24 words that would be in someone's wallet well if you could do that you could take my money so i'm willing to wager that it's pretty low give you an analogy it would be imagine this that all the sand and all the beaches in the world this planet was blonde and there was a single grain of red sand okay that's mikey and all those beaches you'd have a better chance of finding that red grain of sand than you would of guessing my wallet even if you were given a million years all right what else we got here i paid 50 bucks for netscape navigator gold back in the day i did too i was a netscape user i loved that browser man little by little though internet explorer died it took him over i guess the ihk contract with cardinal is almost over it ain't over till i deliver the things that we need to deliver gogan voltaire and shelly and make sure everything is perfect and looks really good there and of course that bacio is the infrastructure for that is laid out it's ready to go when the community needs it and then when that time has come then we'll come to the community say we have a really cool idea for how we can make this go on for many more years but do that in an even more decentralized way much better than the tripartite agreement that we originally had we'll have a lot more people to come along with us than we did when we got started and then the community will make a decision if that makes sense or not and if it makes sense we'll go all in if it doesn't make sense what the money and infrastructure and progress will be there for the community to have alternatives and that's the point of decentralization it's not just one person's vision it's a meritocratic thing we show up and we tell you what we're gonna do for you and we show you how we're going to get it done and then you the community make that decision not me did you the movie hackers in 1995 that was actually one of angelina jolie's first feature films and she actually married the male lead in that film the marriage did not last very long it was it was a crazily crazy bad movie it was all bad is like parabolic where it gets so bad it becomes good unfortunately for hackers it was right at the base of the parabola it wasn't starting to get good things the room went the other direction that just tommy became a legend because it was so bad it was just it was not there we have a great relationship james with ledger they've never had an issue with ledger at all they're great companies same for treasurer i'm a ledger user it's just some of these things take time to do it's microcontroller programming an assembly it is really nasty stuff to program those devices because they're secure devices and so they have to be simple by design which means that you don't have the richness that you get with higher level languages browser's a little easier because they use this micro python thing but it's still hard it's very difficult to write code for that and we we like vacuum labs they do great work michael lesser does the hard four combinator deal with ledger information related to both the daedalus itn as well as the roy itn no harvard common air strictly deals with changing the ledger rules in the system rules from one configuration to another byron rules to shelly rule shelly rules to gogan rules and what that allows your client to do is to read through the history of the chain from byron to shelley to gogan and validate every block as one contiguous history as it should be code is law yay you could take the rust rules and graph them on and then you could validate the entire rust itn but that seemed to be counterproductive and it would be an extra bloat for something people didn't care too much about we did include a hash of the history of the rust itn in the cardonal main net so that got checkpointed by cardano but if you want to do rule validation it would take three to six months to include that for no upside charles how do you go from seeing the news of a coup in mali to approaching their new government proposed to run their nation on cardano we follow political events and whenever there's a military coup against a government legitimate or otherwise it's a news item and one of the things is that when you overthrow a government you have a new government come into place that new government has a small window of time in the international community to set the tone of what it is is this a restoration of democracy or a revolution against the tyrant and then they'll reinstall a proper functioning government or will this be another dictatorship to one dictatorship replaced another turkey for example had a long history of chemicalism and whenever the government got a little crazy and fundamentalist the military would overthrow it then enter a period of unease and then eventually get back to elections unfortunately last time they tried that failed and now there's not such a good leader in turkey so this is where molly is at and we're curious as is the international community is curious to understand what is the nature of this government what does it want to do where does it want to go and how will it go about restoring legitimacy and rule of law in the body of nations and of course if they want to embrace blockchain technology that's a really good way of doing it because one of the first things you ask when you've overthrown a democratically elected government is when we get back to democratic elections how do we know that the voting is free and fair e-voting out of blockchain would be a really good way of doing that one of the first questions you ask when you overthrow a government you start restoring property rights is you say well how do we know that the property rights moving forward will be free and fair and immutable and unadulterated putting property on a blockchain would be a really good way of doing that so we'll see what direction they want to go in it doesn't look too promising at the moment unfortunately but it's always an option that lives in the options space and we are heavily involved in lots of things going on in africa as we are in eastern europe and asia and so it's impossible for these things to happen without us stumbling upon it or running into somebody who's either directly or indirectly impacted by it it can be from internet being shut down in a nation it can be from diaspora floating from one nation to another nation it can be in bad policy like what happened in zambia and zimbabwe it can be in the imperialist policies of the communist party of china and the debt diplomacy that they're pushing on the continent these are really complicated issues and every now and then we run into some difficult situations like for example if we were to build an id system and a voter registration system if that system wasn't constructed correctly then the system could actually bias the elections towards one candidate or political philosophy or another and there's been more than one occasion where we've talked to a u.

s ambassador or a state department and they they've had a unusually high level of interest in the things that we do to the extent that they tell us to keep them in a loop so everything is political in a certain respect but that's the point technology is here to make people's lives better and you have to be very careful with it but you can't just judge people on the surface you have to dig into the details and try to understand the grievances and see if people are legitimately there trying to make things better or if those people are there for power and wealth and domination and destruction and then once you've determined that you can kind of decide where things fall how's the [ __ ] in your back pocket doing pretty good pretty good getting crusty hey charles what did the state pool operators you meant to the first epic end up getting did you create a special coin for them i talked to josh miller about it and tim tim is our narrative guy and the problem is that tim is was on vacation and when he came back there were some things in front of it but we have not forgotten that that's something we are definitely gonna do and every single person who made a block on the first epic if they want a special gift they will be able to do that and actually they can prove who they are just because they actually have the cryptographic materials to do so so we'll set up some website or something and let them come to us and we'll announce that at a later date take a little time to get to it though but i think they should get something because they were there in the beginning and those blocks will be here 50 years from now would you implant a neural link so for those of you who don't know the situation neural link is a bci device an implantable bci bci stands for brain computer interface and basically how it works is you have these little tendrils these strings and they're made of silicon carbide and they drill a hole in your skull right here right now and they insert it in and the strings wrap into your brain and they have a robot that does this with the neurosurgeon and then those strings by being really close to your neurons can actually interface with them so they can read signals from them and you can even send electrical impulses to the neurons the same way the neurons fire so it's like artificial neurons okay now the top of the the neural link sits at the flush with the skull and then your skin grows over it and then what happens is that you can connect it to a charging pad and then the device itself can transmit wi-fi through bluetooth to your phone so your phone can talk to the implant the implant can talk to the phone and what that means is that your phone can now understand your brain and your brain can now understand your phone that's a hypothesis now the problem with bluetooth is it's too low powered it's not doesn't have enough bandwidth to be able to sustain reasonable applications however that is enough to transmit motor information so the first generation of the technology appears to be geared towards quadra and paraplegics they put some things in your brain in the mortal cortexes and then they kind of rewire some things in your body and then suddenly you think transmit walk and move now that's a long road but it's actually a shorter road than you guys expect so they already installed this technology in pigs they've removed it from pigs the surgical robot probably will be where it needs to be i'd say in one to three years the material science on the leads that's almost where it needs to be i'd say in in the 12 to 24 months time frame that'll be good enough they'll probably go through another 10 to 20 iterations of the design and chip before human implantation and that'll be done in tandem with the pig trials that they have so if i was a betting man i'd say within three to five years the chip will be production ready for a clinical trial with quadriplegics and paraplegics okay they'll install it they'll put a big cohort through rehab and see if they can walk again and if they can the consumer confidence in the device will go to the [ __ ] moon because suddenly you have people who couldn't walk who can walk and they're okay and they're like using the device and it's safe and it's great and it'll be a medical device for restoring loss function either hearing vision or body movement and also dealing with transcranial neural stimulation for deep neural stimulation for parkinson's for probably another three to five years after they've passed clinical trials then generation 5 10 somewhere in that range there'll be an inflection point where the device goes from a medical implanted device to a cosmetic device goes to a elective surgery okay we're getting it not to restore or repair something we're getting it to be a bci that we use to talk to computers learn from computers and interface with computers now you guys ask well what's the point of this he said well here's the thing i am communicating to you through speech you see my lips moving words come and they get transmitted as digital signals turn into analog you hear them the trend and then your brain understands them this is prone to ambiguity this is prone to high signal to noise high noise to signal it's prone to all kinds of problems okay and transmitting complex concepts can take hours days weeks months for example let's say you guys decide you want to be programmers you want to be really rigorous in being programmers so you buy donald knuth's book the art of computer programming okay this is the seminal text and that's what bill gates read when he was a little kid and paul allen and wozniak and all these other people that bill's even quoted on the back your starting cold if you can even get them will take months to get because your eyes are looking at stuff on paper you're reading prose translating it thinking it and you kind of get a concept but that's not what dom was trying to say and you have to think some more and then do the exercises and play with it and so forth okay months to get through this now neural link you don't have to talk you don't have to see you don't have to hear you can take an entire concept whatever those neural signals are from someone who gets it their brain you can save that a file excuse me just ate lunch then you can transmit that concept wholesale as a unit to another person's brain and they get it as one unit one transmission and the brain gets it you're just there it's the matrix where he said i know kung fu this is the concept it's pretty it's pretty crazy if you think about what that means for humanity you can transmit emotions and concepts history events and perfect detail and clarity dreams whatever it might be through one transmission medium no longer speaking no longer hearing no longer seeing thinking okay that's probably the single greatest innovation in the human kind because we've never had the ability to communicate this way just look at what extending ourselves with a cell phone has done as a culture being able to to push that out and what you can now accomplish now that you have something where you can communicate with people instantly and know always where you are and be able to take pictures and video used to be when i saw something crazy i tell my parents mom dad i saw a car hit another car or i saw this thing happen or whatever when i was a kid now i see something crazy i take a video i take a picture then i send it to them and they instantly receive it and they don't receive my interpretation of it they receive a visual interpretation can interpret themselves and then we can talk around that so we have more depthful sophisticated conversation you take it to this level and i can transmit an entire book and a single thought and all my opinions about it and then you can get 10 other people's opinions about it knowledge about it and then you have all those things and you can think about it and then transmit those ideas to them okay the other thing is that ais can then start interfacing with humans and being mentors and teach them and you can also slow down the passage of time and suddenly make things last a lot longer so a period of just a few seconds could be like months or years of potential cognition if you get these systems running properly it's really crazy and it just blows your mind when you actually think about where this is going what really blows my mind is elon musk did it again he figured out this model okay if he woke up and said my job is to go do telepathy and concept transmission and safe state for your brain everybody be like here we go again but i said he said i'm gonna make crippled people walk okay who can fight and oppose them for that and it just so happens that the road map that he's following will result in that similarly if you start with we're going to go to mars on the rocket everybody thinks you're crazy if you say we're going to build reusable rockets and become the taxi for nasa at one tenth the cost of the space shuttle everybody's like oh that makes sense it's evolution of technology it's entrepreneurship it's a new business model yeah yeah just so happens that that then builds the capabilities to go to mars when you're an entrepreneur early in your career and you want to go do something batshit crazy like me i want to go change africa and the eastern europe and southeast asia make the world a better place give people an economic identity you don't do that you don't just say let's go give economic identity to everybody you have to start in a way that you can grow and evolve to get there so we built cardano and it has a collection of great use cases and we live in that state and we have to evolve and grow and we have to get the next level and the next level and the next level it just so happens that the way this technology that we're building is going to evolve to get us there okay and it might take 20 years and it might take 30 years the same for neural length they've been working on it for a few years and they've gotten to a point where they're in pigs three to five years they'll be in people three to five more years they'll be in non-disabled people three to five more years they'll get to a point where the bandwidth is good enough the software is good enough all of these things and then they'll be able to actually transmit concepts not just turn on the lights and turn off the lights play your favorite music and etc etc turn the computer on and off think to unlock the door et cetera et cetera now there's a lot of pairings that have to happen along the way miracles and antenna better meta materials solid state antennas all kinds of weird stuff has to happen to get there furthermore i firmly believe that they're going about it the wrong way with a normal battery i think they need to use a nuclear battery a nuclear diamond battery because you'd ever want to charge these things you want to be a self-contained unit and i also think it's a really bad idea to put all the transmission mechanics in the actual device itself they should just have the wiring there and then you put something on your head to be able to transmit and receive because you want to be able to disable through a hardware level switch that capability you don't want transmission built in because then the implant can be hacked under certain conditions and i think that they need to be very careful with the security side of things and they probably won't be because elon is reckless in certain respects but there are actually other companies thinking about this and now that the gauntlet has been thrown down and people understand the value of this technology is here to stay and this is one of the many things that's going to change everything about people's lives okay that's my neural link and by the way if neural link becomes common i will launch a cryptocurrency where you can mine with your brain it's called tranquil we actually have a design for just finished breakfast in borneo sounds a [ __ ] movie breakfast in borneo and he said breakfast and boring black mirror territory oh yeah i think john lennon would be proud of you oh good old john lennon we all miss him can you speak about the future of crypto regulations taxes pretty broad question give me a specific question or else i'll just rant for for the next 10 minutes on something hi charles with any courses being created to help developers build cardano dabs we already created two courses on you to be a pollutus course and a marlow course i'm going to talk about the marketing in the devops excuse me the dev experience people next month about looking at the top rated courses on udemy that are for programming and seeing if we can convince those people when the time is right to create plutus and marlow courses so we will get back to that in a second because i mean if somebody's created a class with 150 000 students and 25 000 five-star ratings and they really have a great pedagogy in the system why the [ __ ] do you replicate that you buy it you go down and say hey go make a pluto's course tell us the price and they'll go and do that in six weeks to eight weeks and then you have that great content there and it's in a community with millions of people we can also of course do the same thing for coursera and edx for someone who doesn't have any background in programming what language would you recommend i'm going to create a program in class i i've broken down i said i'm going to do it i did a security lecture i'm in the middle of redoing the security lecture i love teaching and what i'm going to do is probably create a really rigorous programming class where i start with the nature of computation what is computation what is a computer and there's different ways of thinking about it from automata to complexity to to concepts like state machines and so forth and so there's a real rigorous mathematical way of doing it i'm going to try to make that accessible and explain the history of where computers came from from a mathematician's perspective so you had turing machines and recursive functions and lambda calculus that was all the 1930s and so forth and then say okay now that we kind of understand what a computer is and there's a whole field of what can a computer do and what it can't do then let's talk about languages and grammars and then let's really dig into okay what is actually happening when you program okay we'll talk about languages and the manipulation of data very scip way of doing some structure interpretation computer programs okay so then once we have those foundations what i'm probably going to do is build the pedagogy around javascript surprising language to choose but the reality is javascript is probably the lingua franca of the web and it will never go wrong to learn javascript because at this day and age through you whatever your opinion is on how to program you can do that with javascript there are logic based ways declarative ways imperative ways functional ways to use javascript well and you say oh but what i don't like to type typescript then it's a it's a flavor it's a dialect okay i i really like haskell we can go to peerscript okay but it's the door opener and it's how everything's wired together it's how everything talks and you can do everything with it and the goal would be to go from javascript and really learn basically how that works to the next step which is do some projects with it and i think a web scraper would be a really good project to do because it teaches you a lot about how to interface with the browser and the web and how to store stuff in a database and clean data and so forth and that would be really cool be nice to do some form of an ai project with it and there's a lot of really nifty neat tools there and maybe do something with algorithmically generated music so i think three projects the capstone kind of do what you terpe did with haskell but in the javascript world do something with the web scraper and do something in ai it'd be really cool to do all three and i think all that together would be a really nifty programming class and it would be nifty to also at the same time talk about test driven development and include on at the exact same time you're learning the concept how to use a test driven development framework a selenium or something like that so as you're writing the code you're writing a test at the same time so you're learning good ideas introduce algorithms and data structures at the same time so you actually have some good foundations to wrap your hands around and then also learn how to use a version control system okay like get and put all that together it's a lot to think about it's a lot to do so it'll probably take me a long time donald knuth has been writing his books for 50 years but i think if you get through all of that it'll leave you with a really beautiful appreciation for what are computers and how do they work and what is this all about this complexity theory and this theory of computation and this automata theory and like what does this mean what does to compute something mean and so forth and when you see stephen wolfram running around a computation computation computation the hell is he talking about in these things and then if you learn the javascript pedagogy and alternative would be python i think both of them have enormous merits mit for example uses python they used to use lisp and so it gives you a sense of how high esteem python has become but i think javascript has evolved as a language to a point where it really can become a lingua franca and serve you quite well throughout your entire academic career and your professional career and you can do everything in it from ai to data science and beyond and also it's a language that you can easily use to interface and talk to anything on the web and if you learn how automation works there you go now in terms of the [Music] operating system i'll use for this i'll use i'll use windows for it and i'll use windows the way it should be used so i'll probably use powershell and chocolaty got you guys you linux people and we'll have some fun with it anyway long time a lot to do that's absolutely correct i did say that about molten tar monster number three and i firmly believe it [Music] i know c sharp pretty well am i ready for gogan just brush up on your on your functional side of c sharp learn about lambdas these types of things like two to four weeks of just thinking about functional pro like buy a functional programming for c sharp and that'll get you exactly in the mindset and then take one of the tutorial classes and within six weeks you can write a bluetooth smart contract is it possible for a marxist movement to co-opt something the future of cardano i was part of two different movements that got co-opted and so then i see the blm movement and it's already become horrifically co-opted probably was co-opted from the beginning when i was in the tea party when we first started that we were talking about three things we said humble foreign policy we were talking about sound money and we were talking about following the constitution it was a very broad mandate and it brought a lot of young people together all across the political spectrum and then what happened was that michelle bachmann's and breitbart's and these other people that just showed up and then suddenly we started saying hey we hate gays i was like whoa wait yeah we never said that that has nothing to do with this movement that that's wrong don't do that but then their voices got louder and louder and louder and then it became vote republican anti-abortion blah blah blah and i just became an organ of the republican party in about two years got completely absorbed and took the very right wing of the republican party i said damn that sucks and so then occupy wall street came out and it was on the back of we hate the bailouts we hate the cronyism we hate predatory capitalism that basically these large companies get so powerful they can influence the government to put in puts for their bad behavior so when they screw up they don't pay for the consequences of that so these big protests broke out and everyone's like this is wrong and the bailouts yeah and then and then suddenly these marxists came in and they said oh okay and this is anti-capitalism and the only way to solve it is read read about lenin and marx and we will solve it with neo-communism trotsky is the way to go and i was like whoa whoa no no no no don't want anything to do with that that's that's evil that killed 100 million people don't touch that they got this black lives matter movement and they said hey there are institutions that are hurting certain groups of people and there's overwhelming evidence of that and it's true there is overwhelming evidence of that and i for example for years have been against the war on drugs not just because it's bad policy but because it's bad policy targeting certain communities and it has created generation after generation after generation of institutional poverty because when kids grow up without their parents because their parents are in jail for non-violent crimes those kids are significantly more likely to commit crimes and hurt people and then when those kids have kids those kids are significantly more likely to commit crime and harm people and the root cause of that is that we incentivized poor people to go and become criminals because they could either go work a minimum wage job or go work an average job or they can go and sell drugs and make 10 times as much money at a culture built around saying that's okay and they went and did it and then lo and behold they get arrested go to private prisons and the cycle repeats itself and it just so happens that when you break those groups down because certain groups happen to not be so well off that on racial grounds it disproportionately affects latinos blacks and other minorities much more so than white groups it also affects white people just as well so it's a war on the poor the war on drugs it devastates those communities and there's definitely institutional racism if you don't believe me about it ask who created it nixon go to youtube and listen to the secret recordings that nixon made in his white house talking to haldeman and others about what was the point of the war on drugs and what it's going to do to the black community if the people who created the policy were advocating that that policy was going to hurt a particular community you can't really argue that that doesn't exist okay so there's plenty examples of institutional racism historically and in today they exist and it's bad so let's end it instead we have this movement cropping up whose leaders trained with marxists have tweeted pictures of them with maduro praising fidel castro wishing him a well at his funeral saying communism is awesome using communist symbology the the fists and all these other things the same tactics the same silencing tactics the same violence tactics and so forth that we see with all marxist rebellions they have legitimate grievance all marxist rebellions do and then their interpretation of that grievance is give structural and institutional change to a different group of people and they will restore justice and order and then when they're given the power they use the power to hurt people there are no counter examples with marxism zero none you cannot find one there is no marxist utopia it is the road to hell whether it's well intended and well-meaning as it was in venezuela as it was in north korea all of these things it always ends the same way food lines brutal government repression because that's what happens when you hyper consolidate power anytime you create a power structure where all the power gets really dense what occurs is it's no longer a game about using that power for you it's a game about preserving that power for them and so i see this movement and it's saying these things it's using these symbols and i think to myself it's the same thing that happened with the tea party it's the same thing that happened with occupy wall street it's been co-opted from wherever it started to a point that its sole goal is to empower an agenda in this case it's the marxist agenda so whenever i see a spade i call it a spade and i'm i'm not really afraid of the woke mob because at the end of the day they know deep down inside this is what they're trying to do i mean look at these kids are they saying yay capitalism yay free markets yay democratic process yay ballot box no they're saying burn it down destroy it tear the statues down the institutions are wrong and we will give you justice and then you look at the kids and you say okay where in your life have you ever run anything had management experience had been in charge of a budget of any substance led people fought in a war done anything that would indicate that you have the life skills necessary to tell everybody in my country how to run my country where have you ever demonstrated moral superiority over people where you've actually stood for something that had consequence it was a professor years ago taught in the south and every for his beginning sociology class he would say hey kids how many of you if you were born in 1840 would have been against slavery if you were here in arkansas and all the kids they raised their head yeah i would have been an abolitionist they're saying okay can you point to something in your life where you stood for something where you became a social pariah as a result of standing for that thing where you were excommunicated from your family and friends where you potentially would have threats of violence against you or actually be thrown in jail for your beliefs there's plenty of people in human history who endured these things like nelson mandela and gandhi and others okay they can point to that but these 18 year old kids the vast majority of them have nothing to show for that so they claim they would belong to the group that was on the right side of history when they haven't demonstrated they had the moral character necessary to be in that group and endure the consequences of being in that group and i look at all these protests and i ask myself how many of them would be willing to stand out for this for a year two years three years endure brutal political persecution be sent to camps imagine being a dissident in china imagine being one of those freedom protesters in hong kong imagine being any of these people that are actually against real repressive governments that are very nasty when they have political opposition people just disappear and ask yourself okay do you think these kids would have the courage to be in that group and some probably would but i'm willing to wager the vast majority don't they don't understand what they're marching for they don't understand the implications of the things they're advocating they don't have a lot of moral courage they're just bored and angry and they're upset they're upset because there is injustice and they're upset because there is institutional problem all across the united states and what it's not just about racial problems there's economic disparity i'm upset that we are in the worst economy since the great depression and jeff bezos now is worth 200 billion dollars that we can have our economy contract by 30 percent and the billionaire class gains 600 billion dollars one percent of the top one percent owns half of the stock market the top 10 percent own 90 of it that is not a representative sample of the american population and this is where we're at okay and so what am i going to do about it am i going to go to the streets and complain and protest and these things and get tear gassed or are we going to build new systems we tried with the ballot box it was part of a presidential campaign we helped get a senator elected we went and lobbied the congress we did all kinds of things for year after year after year and everybody's tried to the ballot box nothing's changing okay we still end up with biden versus trump so the only way you can change things is what happened to the soviet union they ran out of money if the economic system runs out of steam to extent where they can't pay their soldiers they can't pay their police the system dies similarly let's change things economically so if you want justice and equality then build systems that guarantee it by design that's a blockchain when you use cardona whether you're charles hoskinson or you're dan larimer or you are some rando off the street every single person has the exact same rules user experience and no provisions are made for special people not positive or negative that's the basis of true equality and fairness dehumanize it take the people out have predictable solid stable rules for all things and then put voting in then put property in that then put money into that and these types of things and then use these systems for whistleblowers use these systems for underground newspapers use these systems to call truth to power and then use these systems to eat away and corrode at the power of governments what happens when you do these things somehow someway life gets better it gets more fair it gets more equal and low and behold you didn't have to hand the factors of production away to one small group of people who promised you that they would do great things with it once you gave them control over everything and the world gets better you see this is a pivotal moment in human history we have neural link we have genetic engineering we have ai evolving exponentially we have globalization we have unbounded growth in technology across the spectrum and we have zero growth in wisdom we have regressions in wisdom dialogue has become shallow people aren't thinking everybody's becoming subject to propaganda our brains can't handle it people say oh well you just said something that's against something i believe oh my god now i have to hate you even though i used to love you yesterday oh no people just get crazy about these things meanwhile they're endless relentless drum beat of progress is continuing this technology carries consequences guys the same things that allow you to do 4k and ak upscaling for your television will also allow you that very same types of algorithms to identify dissonance in a crowd think it through you have no privacy anymore and all of these things can be known and the same systems that allow you to rate the quality of products can allow you to decide who's dangerous and who's not dangerous think that through think it through what what's going on would you want these superpowers to be in the hands of a small group of people who have been known to lie and use violence to achieve their political ends and say the ends justify the means do you want those superpowers in those people's hands or do you want them to be in no one's hands or collectively owned and out in the open and transparent and no one person can use them to harm you it's just that simple it's a simple philosophical point and the implications of where we go in the next few years the next few decades are going to color the 21st century and decide whether this is the century we have world war iii and a billion people die and a lot of people live in horrific dystopian tyranny or this is the century where we transcended where we started and we became a better species as a whole and we finally treated every human being with dignity and we looked to the 20th century and before as the bad old days never to be returned to that's the point of the technology that we are building that's the point of this movement it's why people wake up every day you when you have tone vase and adam back and peter schiff and it's a scam this is a scam and bitcoin is only true and and only gold is true and they just say this this verbal diarrhea what we're here to do is to bring that world to people that's why people invest in it that's why people spend the time to build it they wake up every day and they sacrifice to be here whether it's code or running a state pool whether it's buying a token whatever the hell it is they're letting their voice be heard as the great silent majority saying what we no longer want to be silent we want to show the world that we are not going to consent and accept a system of tyranny just that simple and there's going to be plenty of woke mobs de-platforming politics of personal destruction from here on out and every year it's going to get more aggressive and harsher and people are going to get meaner and you're going to lose friends and family over it these things happen but the alternative is that we descend into chaos and brutal dictatorship there's no exception to that and i just don't want to say that we had this chance that we lost it that's why i say things i say and yeah you can go to red and complain about it or you can say oh there's a better way to say it or more diplomatic way to say it the time for diplomacy is over because the other side is getting power and they're actively advocating taking everything away from us and preventing us from having the means that we need to have a voice the other side is de-platforming people the other side is centralizing it's buying people off it's forming woke mobs and silencing people okay so if we don't fight for our voice now and have the courage to stand up for the things that we think is right then we will lose those rights tomorrow and no matter how diplomatic and nice we are about it that won't happen alright yeah maybe this will be the fermi moment yeah it could be the fermi paradox yeah very astute there daniel the fermi paradox is this concept that's we haven't seen any civilizations above a certain level of progress and so the idea is that once a civilization gets to a certain level progress it stinks itself and that's why we don't see intelligent life in the universe and it could definitely be true nuclear weapons could have been the fermi point but now ai could be or this inevitable social collapse i've got to admit social media is very devastating it really turns people against each other it makes people so shallow and it makes it so easy to control people propagandize people make them believe and think things that aren't true how does these systems gain traction if the people in power might not allow them because they threaten their power once you get control of the money in the economics and there's money to be made with your system your system sticks around forever the soviet union is a great example of that that was the most oppressive total talarian regime in the 20th century they just couldn't keep it together and so the system collapsed of its own weight and that's the same thing that's going to happen here you can't print six trillion dollars out of thin air and expect that that's fine because if you can why do i pay taxes government government yearly revenue is less than the money they printed this year so if that's fine and there's no consequence to doing that but just stop paying taxes and just print six trillion dollars every year why not [ __ ] it it's all about those printing presses that fiscal ass policy charles how's hydra going pretty good we'll have rob cohen do an update about it in september monday press go burr what does cardano's tps look like around 100 around 100 to 200 is what we're capable of right now hey charles what happens if we hit the 45 billion total split not going to happen for a long time and by the time we get there decades in the future then transaction fees will cover all of it because the network will keep growing hi charles how's the attis project going actually pretty good we might actually have a really cool thing to announce here in a little bit we're waiting got burned on the fertilizer vouchers we underbid that by four hundred thousand dollars our cost of delivery we estimate 500k we bid 100 and then somebody won beneath us there is no way they can service that contract with what they bid so they'll get it and then renegotiate afterwards it's anyway enough to say about that are you going to collaborate with amen golden searer i know i in very well he's a good guy we talk over twitter all the time we run into each other at the conferences and we have a good relationship and i think ava's a good project he's a real scientist and he writes real papers we're both a bit on the high strong side and the passionate side he's a bit turkish i'm a bit italian but we both believe very strongly in the things that we do and the work that he does is goes through proper channels he submits them to peer reviewed conferences and things he says are crazy this is the beautiful thing about having a standard is that as long as people meet that standard then it's you have all these people just branch off and do cool stuff like silvia's doing really cool stuff and gavin is doing cool stuff and emin's doing cool stuff and you can admire it for what it is and you can learn from it because that divergence is clearly a different trade-off profile and we're getting a sense of whether that is there's merit in that approach for example i just read a paper the other day we tend to use merkel trees along with all of our accumulator garbage for zero knowledge stuff and dan bonet has submitted something that involves using rsa accumulators now this may have really good advantages over the way that we've done things in the past but it does require trusted setup so maybe that's an approach or maybe have these class groups who knows that's his approach there's there's a lot of ways to do this stuff so but the point is that dan that paper i think was a use nyx or eurocrypt i can't remember a really nice conference that it was at and so i know there's a certain level of rigor and quality behind the work that was done so going into that paper you you have you take it really seriously because a lot of first serious officers but more importantly really serious people have read it and men's work goes to that same level of scrutiny when he publishes papers they go to those same conferences so he's a good guy hey that's not stagnant at all we're doing quite well guys when china trial running running trial for the digital yuan do you believe governments trying to create their own digital money may disrupt decentralized cryptocurrencies i think what's going to happen is cryptocurrencies will end up becoming a replacement for bis daniel to answer your question the bank of international settlements is kind of the the backbone of central banks at the moment and the non-bis members are actually getting screwed by the bis members about a third of the banks are bis but 95 percent of all transactions run on those rails so when we have these cbdc's and they're issued they'll probably start using cryptocurrencies as settlement rails between each other to do trades and direct consumer products like sovereign debt direct to consumer so so i think that's what's going to happen and it'll end up being much better i have no faith in anything issued by a big powerful central government they're like oh yeah just take this how the [ __ ] you just not use the legacy system then it's like blockchain you're doing it wrong when leisure support for deadlifts when we have the hardware wallet center that's coming soon we'll make us we'll make a statement about it soon can you talk about using crypto to currency arbitrage against the us dollar i eat borrow usds against bitcoin or ada eventually then spend the usd as your purchasing power grows instead of falls let's assume that crypto goes up it doesn't work out so well when you are on the short side of that like for example when we had 11 000 bitcoin and it went to four that would work so well there are financial products that are being constructed in that direction and the d5 space enables that quite well somebody takes the risk and somebody else gets the stability and then you have interest bearing products that you can build with that that's the basis of a contract for difference a base stable coin by the way which is a common theme for stable coins will i which k make daps absolutely absolutely that's why i think it's so silly when people pick on me for etc it's like guys you're complaining about that what happens when i'm building 12 different daps on cardano we work on lots of stuff come on it's okay it's a big tent we'll all work well together the problem with hoskinson is he is as corrupt as anyone else who gains power well this is why i advocate for systems that don't require human beings to run them or when humans are curating it that there are checks and balances because you're 100 correct when you say that power corrupts people there are no exceptions when you get rich and powerful you start changing and you can have all kinds of things like religions and mirrors and wow and to try to protect yourself from that and some people they change just a little bit a lot of people did change a lot but it's unavoidable it's a human thing it's built into our genetic code that we start forming hierarchies and the people at the top of the hierarchy they get away with things that normal people can't a great example of that would be a year about six months ago i was driving my huracan it's a lamborghini i'd go a little too fast a little bit over the speed limit and i was on this one road and i crossed the corner and there's this police officer with a radar gun and he's looking for speeders and he sees me speeding and he does this he says slow down i said what a nice cop he he let me get away with that one okay all right then the guy behind me was keeping up with me he was going about the same speed and he was driving it an old beat up i think it was a toyota corolla or camry i can't remember what it is some young white kid and an old car beaten up car and the cop attacks him gets on his motorcycle and pulls over the toyota not the lamborghini i guarantee you that kid was pissed absolutely pissed he's like dude the lambo in front of me was going just as much as me why did you pull that rich [ __ ] over right and this is a society that human beings build and they live in there's all these weird power dynamics and structures the cop knew that if he pulled over me because i have money and power the that if i chose to fight that ticket or whatever maybe make his life a hell of a lot more difficult he knew that if he pulled over the kid who's probably driving to work probably working at applebee's or something he doesn't have a lot of money in the old beaten up car that that kid's just gonna pay the ticket and it's easy for them so it's the path of least resistance that's not fair it's really not fair and the problem is that that happens every single day and that's one little example of it but there's hundreds and the cumulative psychological impact of those hundreds of events that occur is that people who are higher up on the food chain start believing that they're there for divine providence they're there because they're special not because of a set of circumstances that occurred and therefore they're better than the people around them and as they're better they deserve the things around them and it dehumanizes people to a great degree now you can do all kinds of things to try to remind yourself that's not true farming certainly helps because the animal shits on you regardless if you're a billionaire versus your poor they treat you exactly the same way horse will kick you regardless of who you are so there's all kinds of things to humble you bring you down but the problem is that the higher in the food chain you get no matter what you do eventually you start forgetting that so this is why the systems we build are so important because those systems liberate humanity from the same things that happen over and over again they provide checks and balances they provide social mirrors and they provide rules that are exactly the same regardless of who you are where you come from just that simple we need that in a global age and that's definitely true tough pill as well is the truth sometimes charles what are the differences with doc can we collaborate well their technology is surprisingly similar to ours so i'm sure there's a lot of overlap there [Laughter] levity aside i've worked with gavin before and i'm sure we can find a way to collaborate again and we've actually had a lot of great conversations with the polkadot people throughout the years the web3 people throughout the years so i see no problem in our relationship there and this is what he was pushing through due to the pareto principle wouldn't most of the money still end up in the hands of a few regardless of the economic system probably but here's the thing this is the thing that the communists and socialists never understand it's not about whether bob has a billion dollars and jim has a hundred thousand dollars and jane has a thousand dollars it's about the overall condition of society it's why the gdp is a bad measure and i like things like hdi the human development index because you say okay if you were born in this society and at random you'll be inserted into a position would you still feel like that's a good life and you have to ask yourself are you treated with rule of law do you have a voice do you have the ability to better yourself are you hungry or not do you have medical care or not can you get an education or not when you live in a certain place are you afraid every night you have running water and power you have all these things good economic systems tend to make these things better over time bad economic systems rob you of these things there's a wonderful book called enlightenment now it's from stephen pinker where he exhaustively looks at the consequences of capitalism in the 20th century and he says okay where did we go from the 19th to the end of the 20th century every single metric you could look at from infant mortality to blah has gotten better as a consequence of an elevation of all people and extreme poverty has massively gone down now the purveyors of regressive systems of the past want you to believe that everything is horrible for the vast majority of people but even amongst the poor in our country the vast majority of them do not starve the vast majority of them live a decent life i know this because if you compare them to the poor in the slums of indonesia where i used to live you go outside at the box city you could see the extreme poverty that was there or you go throughout the townships in africa and other places no medical care no access to medical care seldom have running water or the water is contaminated a lot of people have multiple children because at least one of them will die of an infant disease that they can't get treated before the age of 18. no access to education no free travel rampant epidemics of sexual slavery some cases parents selling one of their daughters into sexual slavery to pay off debts that occur that's life 2020 today of people in these areas you cannot tell me that the impoverished in my country in the united states live that same reality some do but the vast majority do not because the economic system prevents this from occurring it's a fact and people ignore it okay so even if you have a pareto principle thing it's not about the pareto principle it's about this growth that we've had is there enough mixture of that growth so the human condition gets better this is why taxes exist and this is why you have some notion of redistribution so there's uncomfortable conversations and andrew yang was one of the first in the american political system to talk about this about what happens when ai creates structural unemployment in the u.s economy and there's a permanent 20 to 30 percent unemployment in certain groups that cannot be effectively retrained to participate in the economy it's pushing universal basic income for that idea and there may be some merit to that we may have reached a time where we're producing so much that that's so much should be shared why do people still have to work six seven days a week or two jobs and work 12 hours 16 hours when we have so much more productive capacity today than we did 20 40 50 60 years ago when my grandfather was working a lot of cells have to the economic system if you debase the money rich people we do very well okay i can call up goldman sachs anytime and they'd be great to have me as a client we can talk about how to hedge all my assets against inflation and grow as a consequence of inflation or make money when the economy collapses that's an option i have 99.999 of people in america don't have that option so when you debase and inflate the currency those 99.99999 percent of people they get poorer they get less purchasing power it's not immediate but you feel it when you go to pay rent you feel it when you go to the grocery store and you notice that you have less and less in your cart but you're spending the same amount of money you feel it when you go to the gas pump you feel it when you buy a plane ticket you pay your car insurance any of these things they just get a little bit more expensive and you're like why is more and more my paycheck going down and by the way my wages aren't going up okay and what are you gonna do invest your way out of it no because you spend all the money you make every paycheck so bad economic systems create that reality so inflationary monetary policy that massively prints money it's great for the rich people the jeff bezos they do wonderful it's horrific for the poor and the people who advocate for the money printing are the very same people who claim that they're watching out for the poor and they're ready to go take care of them it's crazy it's absolutely crazy so you need a simple 10 to 20 tax enlisted companies yeah i would be a huge advocate of flat tax and a consumption tax 10 flat tax 10 percent consumption tax ba and just don't do any exemptions everybody has some steak and skin in the game and what you take care of the poor people by spending it on certain programs that are block granted to the states and counties you want to do social welfare that's fine but you have to do it locally you can't do it at the federal level it never works and you work with public private partnerships on it there are tens of thousands of charities to work with that should receive government funding for things but they don't a lot of uncomfortable conversations have to be had difficult decisions have to be made but another side about income tax i want accountability and you should get it too if somebody's spending your money that they've taken out of your pocket they owe you an explanation of how they spent their money so every year every quarter i should get a beautiful quarterly report emailed to me from the u.

s federal government and the state governments with use of funds and as much detail as i ask for what did you spend it on kpis what was the outcome what did you want to do where did it go and if you miss your kpi several times terminate the people why don't we have that we demand it the private industry get rid of the gross fake limp i like my gustov clamp it's a nice painting when i find something better to replace it i'll replace it why are you guys gonna be so negative gotta be chill god i just gotta lay down i was sitting outside today in my yukata drinking my coffee i was reading something then suddenly a chicken landed on my head a chicken straight up landed on my head don't know where the chicken came from but he was chilling there right there my back my shoulder beak was right there trying to get on all the way on the top of the head just gotta be with one with the chicken man one with the chicken have you seen one punch man yes that's correct it's a reproduction of freyja's tears it's actually a pretty good reproduction it's hard to redo a painting like that gold digger gotta be one with the chicken wow after finally two years i finally caught a live ama all right well stephen it's your question you're here live what are your views on loop ring it's actually on our due diligence list for september so i'll let you guys know the next ama charles why is cardona the capybara if you ever meet a capybara there are a few animals in nature that get along with everything more so than the capybara i have seen capybaras in the middle of a field of cayman caimans these these crocodile alligator-like creatures caimans i've seen capybaras with all kinds of predators including tigers when they've been transplanted to different biomes and somehow they just get along they just all get along turtles sleep on them birds sleep on them monkeys jump up on them and ride them to go places so be the capybara just be friends with everybody be nice to everybody they really are damn friendly and if you ever pet a capybara it's just a just a life-changing experience i am thinking about getting a giant ant heater though smartphone pools charles that's the future somebody got a steak pool working on a smartphone i want to see the cardano effect interview rick if you're still here philippe if you're still here guys get me that interview i want to see it i want to see a block be made with a cell phone that'll just make my day [Music] you drinking coffee yep hot strong and black why do you think etc is so resistant to change i think everybody in etc is really embracing change i think the people who have self-proclaimed the leadership are not willing to change because they understand what concepts of change means to them they lose power they effectively get terminated by the community and they do not want to give that up absolutely not why did dan larimer say you were pretending to be working with him but were really sticking a knife in his back okay well if he did say that okay good for dad i remember history differently you need an mcs your print on your wall no actually the guy who's really cool is let's see his name it'll come to me in a bit he's a modern day salvador dali he's a rushing guy any update on legends of valor still working on it i have not had time as i said before that legends of valor is the lowest priority of mine and unfortunately if i'm busy with cardano i that's where i take time from i still thinking about it and we will definitely put some real world heavy work into it to get it done but just not where it needs to be at the moment any hokusai art no i'll let philippe know you better i would love to see that interview it'd make me so happy kush vladimir kush is the guy's name wonderful k-u-s-h kush highly recommend his art would you fork etc no the question is will etc fork itself is gavin wood a nice guy yeah actually i get along with gavin i mean some people he's not their cup of tea but i've never really had a big grievance or issue with them gavin just has a way of doing things and i have a way of doing things and my way of doing things sometimes really pisses people off and his way of doing things also sometimes really pisses people off so from a mutual sometimes pissed people off standpoint i do actually empathize and connect in that way that said he's a really smart guy he's very talented he's a great programmer and he does lead a good company so i will give him credit where credit is due charles hoskins are you working with ltc or did that fall flat we are writing a lip a litecoin improvement proposal takes a little bit of time to do that do you still talk to vitalik at all these days not that much he'll occasionally come to our reddit or some channel and opine on something okay do you think the child trafficking rings amongst the rich are real well that epstein thing really doesn't look so good there is something there there's definitely something there i don't know what the hell it is and we as a society tripped over it and the media has been trying to bury it again but it's so big and vast it's really hard to bury and i i think there if you if you that's the road you want to go down that there is definitely some depth there that is immensely uncomfortable for a lot of the elite if vitalik applied to ohk would you hire him well he's probably worth half a billion dollars by now so i think i think that he's a really brilliant person and could be a phenomenal researcher yeah you looked up vladimir kush didn't you yeah now and knowing is half the paddle another thing to look up if you guys have ever watched this is half of the bag they have mr plinkett mr plinkett's reviews watch his star wars reviews mr plinkett so good that's just an example of people being very creative i have met the winklevoss brothers on many occasions we've had dinner together there's been more than one running and there are standard entrepreneurs in the space yeah where our interests align we talk and not just move on there's nothing really there we're not direct competitors in anything so it's really easy to have a good relationship in that respect or at least a cordial professional relationship they are bitcoin maximalist all right well who cares i think gemini lists more than bitcoin i'd have to look that up all right one last question don we got two minutes left do where i've talked to barry silbert on many occasions perry and i know each other very well oldberry very very very [Music] go on the lex friedman podcast i've been listening to a lot of those lately i'm surprised he's just like such a monotone guy but at the same time he has these amazing guests and he asks pretty good questions this is example of a dude just waking up saying we're gonna make it happen he does i have a lot of respect for lex it'd be fun to go on a show papa john's or dominos neither kind of like dominoes but neither you can do better pizza come on one good question give me something good guys well i think michael is still here by the way michael the eagle i i i my secretary michael let me know about it we couldn't get the crate into the elevator and so i think i'm gonna bring the eagle to the ranch and we'll find a place for it there but where the hell you got the eagle from i've only heard of the eagle and its size and scale but i have not actually seen the eagle we gave it back to the delivery guy said just hold on to it till monday figure out what to do with it so thank you for the eagle i appreciate it i of course will take pictures of the eagle and i am as curious as my audience is about what the eagle looks so we'll definitely do that but thank you very much for it i appreciate it i don't know i think i was told it's like 400 pounds in bronze or something like that you're going to get a periscope or something you if you go to the trouble of buying the eagle you have to do it i'll find a cool place on it for it okay one last question come on ugh have you talked with antonopoulos about cardano we've engaged over twitter and i recommended a mastering cardano i think if we get to a certain scale he'll do it just yeah you have to get to that scale first d d's second edition or third edition well if you played baldar's gate you played second edition if you played third edition well then you played neverwinter nights right that's actually a good one and don so frontier studios is probably going to end up calling my game development company and our first major project is going to be legends of valor so let's just talk about legends of valar for a little bit we're probably going to write it in javascript and i've been looking at a quick check for javascript called js verify and babylon js as a graphics engine and i've been looking at ramda for a a functional programming way of doing javascript stuffs type and we'll use typescript as the dialect of javascript so all those things together should be really good easy testable code that's reasonable performance and can run a video game so a lot of work to do with legends of valor and i've been writing the plot for and i just haven't had a lot of time to really think about it but i'll bring some people in my brother is actually friends with a guy in gillette who work for gary gygax and he's like dying to work for me so we'll we'll see what we can do but i'll build up capabilities there in 2021.