Surprise AMA December 5th, 2019

hi this is Charles Hoskinson broadcasting live from warm sunny Colorado Oh today is December 5th it's about 2:30 8 p.m. and we just had a great summit brought all the product people together the commercial people together or even had a few technical people and it's rare and I which K usually we're all science we're all academic we're all engineering and this time around we had product and commercial so they're the old how do you money what do we do how do we solve problems it's good actually bring that in so it's been a great week a very informative week very product oriented week we learned a lot about where cardano's at we learned a lot about work hard on those going and we're working under partners great leadership towards forging a wonderful roadmap for card on o 2020 that we feel will be very competitive very compelling and really helped us get to where we need to go as ecosystem furthermore actually really give people strong incentives to adopt the platform use the platform build things on the platform so we discussed everything from basically partnerships that we need to procure two standards two ways of rating our blockchain versus other blockchain measurement of things like performance and decentralisation how we deal with people the PwC s and the Accenture z-- and the McKinsey's of the world and getting them really excited about what we're doing and making them recommend what we do things like user experience development experience we went back to first principles on user experience we went to develop an experience from first principles the budget the smart contracts program manager is going to be running around for quite a bit of time and talking to various different people about the smart contract model and what makes flute is unique and Marlowe unique and the dsl oriented approach unique so that was great partner really helped us focus in on the vision the mission the goals the elevator pitch for the platform and these are inputs that we can put to McCann as they start helping us with the brand refresh and it'll give us much more concise much more exciting way of talking about Cardinal as I mentioned my prior AMA we tend to believe a lot of the things we've done it self-evident and we write all these great papers that are super awesome and exceptional and are very advanced but the reality is the work we've done hasn't really percolated as much as it should throughout the different key constituencies and personas that are going to be the consumers of the platform so it's really important that we really think deeply now about communication and marketing and not assuming the work we do is self-evident but really getting that home and pushing that through so pretty exciting stuff and it was just great Topman I really enjoyed spending some time with the team if you want to know what they look we did tweet a photo of the whole team together and not to be outdone we've also released big data dump today and more information is coming basically on staking rewards so for a long time we looked at different economic models and there's kind of a basic principle for how you run these systems so while the market cap is low adoption is low you tend to have a higher inflation rate because what happens is you have much faster option than any amount of inflation would matter like okay five percent or ten percent per year if you have a two three four X on the valuation of the underlying asset even though inflation is decaying a little bit the overall adoption is so high nonlinear that the inflation is not going to impact the price so you pay a lot in the beginning and then if you have lots of adoption you get very valuable then you should start paying less and less and less until eventually you get to a point where the network has no inflation or low inflation and then it's just reallocation from a tax on transactions so we call this the network deficit and there's lots of thought about this so along a short is somewhere between 7 to 12 percent depending upon participation we released the blog post actually explaining this Kevin Hammond has done a great job we even have an estate pool calculator you guys can play around with use and this is kind of the first attempt and what's going to happen is state pools are going to start offering more than just ledger services more than just consensus services of adding slots blocks into slots they're gonna start doing a whole litany of other things there's a whole fee structures that they could add it so it's gonna be pretty exciting to see how that materializes so data dump successful we're still thinking about the 9th we may launch on the 9th where the incentivized test debt we may not if we don't it's not going to be like 10 weeks it'll be a few days to a week of a delay just depending upon how components pulled together so we've begun stress testing of Jormungandr 0.8 RC 7 and RC 8 should be out in no time and we just keep doing release candidates and we're cleaning up things and correctly things along the way the problem is that every time we do this usually introducing a breaking change and the other pieces of infrastructure address dia and the Daedalus have to plug into that so if we run into situation where we stopped making we keep making breaking changes too late to our dev cycle it will delay the integration those other components which will delay the release by day or two because they just need some time to clean things up so if not the ninth it'll be that week most likely and be probably towards the earlier part of the week than the back end but the ninth still looks ok it just will let you guys know on Friday through tweet or something or over the weekend basically whether that's good or not but pretty close so I hope you guys are as excited as I am I hope you guys realize that the culmination of pulling all these pieces together to create the antenna my's test that has but certainly some white hair in my beard and my head and it is a enormous task basically the instead of eyes test that is a cryptocurrency and frankly you could launch Shelly from it if you wanted to and have we done that 2017 people he'd be pretty happy and there's just been an just so much thought and care in two years of protocol design that went into this and now the your current actually start creating state pools and doing stuff and letting us know we have over 3,000 people in the telegram group that specialize in yelling at us and they do great work from recon down people have already begun their own stress testing and throwing millions of transactions at at their nodes and taking a look at stability and settlement times and so forth and we've learned an enormous amount we've done over 50 releases of the German Gator clients since the network test net was released we've serviced now over a thousand issues and we just keep pushing our way forward the Haskell side is really starting them while we did the release of the 0.1 Haskell node work in architectural diagrams now all these things and going through each item and getting a sense of where everything's at and now we're on two-week release cycles on the Haskell node side for the first time in our company's history so seeing formal methods in practice actually being put into an agile release processes I've never seen it done in my career we aspired to it everybody said we were pretty crazy but now it looks we're actually getting there so anyway Nick is doing great job on the address the aside he's the product manager there and we're working real hard to get proper stories and proper agile and now that we're on two-week release cycles we're gonna see what we can do with that so things are moving along cardano's really starting to push forward and we're starting to have meta conversations about how do we compete how do we commercialize how do we build things up see all crypto currencies they have kind of this o DCC model you have the operational delivery commercialization capitalization model capitalization is how do you pay for everything get it all done and commercialization is people make money using it how do you make money using it deliveries about how to build it operations or what are the things you need to do to keep it running and Cardno has always been difficult because there are actually five entities that were involved by DCC o DCC and getting all of the coordinating work together and getting everything to be orchestrated in the right way has been really the most difficult challenge of my career but now as we enter into 2020 things are just getting unstuck and they're kind of moving in the right direction like for example we just added two members to the Cardo Foundation board to help accelerate things so the Governing Council now has Tamara hasson and Nico and both of them are incredibly competent people and they have proven themselves to not only be capable of doing amazing things but they've also proven themselves to be very loyal to the carbonyl ecosystem and work seven days a week and travel everywhere all across the world and so forth and I for the first time ever actually got to sit down with a foundation member and had real conversation about the Cardinal improvement proposal process and talk about protocol proposals infrastructure proposals marketing proposals how to create a Solutions Group within the organization how to handle deal flow so when Bob comes in and says I need something built how to route that to preferred service providers and then how when a Solutions Architect looks at it if they need something from Cardno to support this how that process should work and then we started actually for the first time ever talking about what a treasury would look and how deliberation about card on approval proposal should be done and how an RFP process should look in so forth so that's that was exciting because we we've just lived so much in the I which case I lo and I've had to make a lot of these decisions for myself and I do the best that I can with the information I have and the people advising me but at the end of the day this is a community protocol it's a community effort Cardno is yours as much as it is mine and for this to be successful we have to extend it beyond Iowa K and we have to make sure that there's open collaboration there open communication so to be able to actually diagram this and say there's an explicit way to do it that we can start in a pseudo federated way that becomes more and more too centralized over time super cool super cool and and in any way it's good life is good so thank you for your patience and having said all that let's get to the Ave part okay I feel a lot of focus is on the pools and staking but dap sir what are gonna be the next thing oh yeah and that's why we staged releases so Shelley's about pools and staking into centralization and Gogan is about smart contracts and gaps and DSL and applications and so forth so let's get Shelley done and we're getting that done oh [ __ ] rc8 is already out it's been a long day those guys are doing like two to three sometimes up to five releases per week so it surprises me because they just pump it out and I get a a notification an hour later so alright rc8 is out cool when did RCA come out by the way now I do have white heresy all throughout the beard Charles how does the movement of 40 billion coins an anticipation force taking relates to networks health well that's really good that means life lots of coins are moving it means people are actually paying attention to what we're saying so instead of people just throwing it into a cold wallet forgetting about it going away for two years it means that most of our users are dynamic engaged active which is exactly what you want with the proof of stake system because the people who own it are capable of actually running it Charles said your bald eagle buddy get away clean after the tax after office job bald eagles are protected by the US government so they get away with everything you don't even think about looking at them the wrong way hello from Oklahoma the home is a beautiful state good people good fried food his New Balance happy with car dot on the pilot I believe so they've never given us any indication otherwise it is a pilot and we'd love to expand it across their whole product line and that's one of those things where you just kind of look at a lot of key metrics like sales volume the price differential between authenticated and unauthenticated products and a lot of other things and then you make the case of why this needs to be something throughout everything it was a great product to work on and we hope to keep doing it genuine question how you doing buddy doing good doing really good how do I get my earnings from the snapshot so after the incentivize test net is done all earnings that are in the accounts will be moved back to the main net and there'll be a blog post explaining how that move back is going to be done generally is something you restore some credentials and issue and transaction and that that but that whole flow will be explained when we get closer to the main net can you explain a little more how you've managed to use a formal methods with agile development it's a $64,000 question not only am i go to explain we wrote a paper and that paper is actually being circulated internally and then we'll publish it publicly that kind of explains our experiences and what we learn from it by no means are we done with it and there's still a lot of kinks to be worked out but that's gonna be one of the great stories of the IOT experience where we were able to basically get the value of formal methods without having to use heavyweight formal methods and still be able to go into release cycles that are reasonable and for example we're doing this now with the specification of Gogan where we have the extended UT Excel model and needs we need to adapt the Shelly legend rules to correspond with that so polina is actually doing this real time with implementation of those legend rules and real time with the property based testing that we're doing so it's really cool to see all those things come together and it's really cool to see how incredible stuff is for software quality there's just not really that many bugs that we're coming up with and when we find them we were able to fix them very quickly and the software quality is remarkably high so that's pretty cool what do you think about nuclear fusion and the French Revolution it's pre inch those are pretty orthogonal questions nuclear fusion super cool there's two dominant forms there's like what's happening with tokamaks any tier and stellarators so that basically you have a little pressure plasma that gets kind of pushed together by the the magnetic fields and kind of a torus structure and those are really interesting the problem is material sciences need to evolve a little bit magnetic containment of fusion is a little difficult and then there's the American way of doing things which is called laser fusion where we just supercharged much lasers up on a big battery and then we shoot them at a halt ROM which is a little target and there's a little bit of deuterium in it and then it gets 200 times denser that lead just forms a fusion both of them are really cool the laser fusion is being done at a place called National Ignition facility the person who runs it is Ed Moses and they've even developed a hybrid reactor nuclear fusion nuclear fission called life lose your inertial fusion engine and it's energy positive actually so we actually broke that milestone which is a huge huge deal IEC fusion has not been energy positive for a hundred years since Philo Farnsworth came up with it actually a long time ago I was much younger I actually helped build a Farnsworth fuser so that was a fun project it's nothing like building a star to sit on your desktop now the stellarator stuff and the magnetic confinement fusion is much more elegant and it does require a lot more science and a lot more careful thought but many scientists feel that that's a better approach the laser fusion approach but they both have their trade offs and they both have their ups and downs so the Europeans are ahead of us in that and Americans are ahead of them and laser fusion but both of them are very viable and probably in the 20 30 to 25 the time frame I think that will actually start seeing real life fusion plants produce energy and do great things what's really sad though is that nuclear fission should not be discounted immediately the problem with the perception of traditional nuclear energy is we tend to believe three things one that it's not scalable down to that the way sticks around forever and that three that in nuclear accidents will end us all because of Chernobyl and Three Mile Island these things the reality is fourth generation nuclear power all of these things are not true you can scale reactor design from the gigawatt down to the megawatt second you can actually like for example the traveling wave reactor or these other things build meltdown proof reactions and third there's ways to process the field so that it has a very short half-life and thus you can store it dry cask on-site so nuclear power is just awesome and there's just so many advancements that have been made over the last 10-15 years some of which have been politically barred for example the use of breeder reactors it allows you to take waste uranium and upgraded into fissile materials but unfortunately we don't allow that to propagate for better or for worse mostly because we fear the propagation of nuclear weapons so it's a fascinating field and it's a pivotal component I believed solving the energy crisis at least for the generation side you still need to figure out the storage and transmission side those are the other two components or earth does not require trusted hardware to be secure it's not the maizing example for a practical implementation of the protocol has this example come to a solution yeah we don't require trusted hardware it's nice to have for the Cask component because then you can get a second assurance that that the keys have been erased but with the Genesis and scuds arrows research that we've done even if you attempt to reuse the keys people will simply reject assuming there hasn't been a 51% attack Genesis assumptions gets the rest get cirrhosis will be a recovery mechanism for that but you don't need to erase the keys but it's nice to actually put trusted Harter in because not only can you use it for things like erasing keys and getting proof of secure ratio so in case you don't trust our research you have a second layer of security you can reuse that for Oracle's you can reuse that for state channel optimization and a litany of other services also quantum resistant check points you could create a closing ceremony at end of each epoch where an NPC occurs with all of the state pools and they can distributive lis generate a check point and sign it with a quantum resistant signature which who cares if it's space efficient or not it happens once every five days and then you can use that to create an additional level of assurance so protocol design if you do it properly you don't just have one adversarial model and you don't have just one security notion you layer things and you say well even if this wall fails I have these to fall backs so that the protocol is still secure and the fact that you can do this very cheaply and easily with consumer hardware or mild protocol design is an awesome thing and it's something works blurring Hoskinson why are dead kings on your Twitter profile I get asked this a lot and people seem to misinterpret it I want to be a king or something it's a historical warning so those kings were actually attending a funeral it was King Edward's funeral over in England and he died in the 1910s shortly before World War one and at that time that group of people were real kings they controlled enormous amounts of wealth power and standing armies and about a third of all the land in the world so the paradigm is that this group of people were the movers and shakers and that basically accident power or dictatorship and birthright power Divine Right of Kings was the way to go and then just 10 years later almost everybody in that room was either dead depowered or put into a position where they really didn't have that level of control their empires collapsed so it shows you the sinkhole effect of social dynamics sinkholes never form from the top down they form from the bottom up so when you're driving down the road you think you're driving on normal everyday Road and then suddenly you fall into a hole and so the societies are like that yeah when you look at the 1910 government of Germany it looked a clean road but there was a sinkhole forming and after World War one the whole Republic the whole dictatorship collapsed and it led to a lot of destruction the same for the Tsar in Russia and many other places so the picture is a reminder of that in its analogy is to social systems into the financial system we tend to believe the legacy financial system the dominance of the dollar the US regulatory system these things are eternal or super strong and cannot be displaced but what we're seeing is evidence of a sinkhole forming in crypto is basically eating away as our other systems eating away and the greed of these systems eating away at that stability and one day we'll see the whole collapse and we'll fall through the whole social order will change just it did when we got rid of Kings and replace them with other things any info about McCann Cardinal foundation is leading that effort and that will be an update that they give but pretty awesome because mathematics invented or discovered I've had that conversation a lot Richard Dawkins or you've all her re you've all her re is the Richard Dawkins of my generation yeah you gotta love them both his Dawkins work on means is truly extraordinary and Ferraris work on saying the societies constructed from narratives and social fictions is extraordinary as well and they're very complementary models of certain respect the reason I have not invested in on ADA in ADA is because of you well good for you I'm glad you love me so much that I can help you steer and make life decisions it's good to hear that I've had that kind of impact on people will card on Oh decouple from Bitcoin yes once we have lots of practicality and use cases and things were running on the network Charles can I start a pool in the test net today and now when we launched the incentivize test that you can and people can delegate to you wait Mass tonight we could do the white mask nice shirt looking good thank you James McLean mclovin is almost in his 40s for a super bad man hi Charles well development on Daedalus mantis resumed or or they'll be an integration with Daedalus for card no devil is is already integrated with card I think your meaning will be support et Cie with one client and you have a de and et Cie in the same client there's no plan for that we did continue working on the mantas codebase we're doing something special with it it's not related to e TC at the moment but we like that that team was never broken up by kicked them doing interesting things in exploring some very specific questions I had about certain topics that shall remain nameless and at some point we'll make a statement about what they've been working on and they've been doing some super interesting work for a year and a half I I'm truly sorry we couldn't make more momentum and progress with the e TC community I mean we couldn't even get a development grant to maintain support for our e TC with mantas and it's a good community there's good people there it's just been a lot of hardship and I think that the current roadmap they have is not sustainable and that major innovation is required if e TC wants to compete with aetherium this argument of principles and stability being enough to sustain it is insane because bitcoin is rapidly upgrading with taproot and these other things lightning coming online bitcoin will have smart contracts and bitcoin has never ever had an issue with integrity and ethics and in mutability and so forth it's i always bend the chain that just does what it does and it has ten years of track record behind it and it's significantly higher valuation in hash rate and a much larger group of Tett hereit's if the only thing ATC has got going for it is it sticks to its principles and it's got smart contracts it has nothing on BTC so you need to innovate you need to do something different you need to provide a compelling story a narrative to the market about why you have a right to exist and when we went to the e.

t.c summits and Hong Kong Vancouver and South Korea for the first two in particular in Hong Kong and South Korea very difficult to work with et Cie with ETCs dev group I'm forget spacing the name right now lived led by Igor and his guys they were openly hostile to us for having the audacity to write a client either they viewed us as unnecessary or overly academic but it was a bizarre reality where people were making open source contributions asking for nothing and providing support and love to the community were being basically picked on for no reason so that was that was challenging and we tried to find ways to create funding mechanisms for ATC for example I believe very strongly the existence of a treasure can I still do would be a game changer and there's evidence of this in both the dash and the zero cash communities the Z cash communities where the money that was invested there has kept those projects viable alive and kept high-quality professional developers and scientists in that ecosystem to build that ecosystem up and add the added value of having gaps and being able to fund gaps or an alternative model it makes absolutely no sense to say that a Treasury is not viable and say well we were just such a hostile community and we can't get along and can't agree to anything so we there's no way you can entrust us with democracy to allocate some fun somewhere is a crazy notion and it's just a really sad that that came up but we did get mantas out of it and we learned an enormous amount about the design at the EVM we learned a lot about vitalik smart contract model through that process and in a way it was actually pretty cool because I was a founder of thorium and I never got a chance to build an etherion client and actually for a time mantas worked with both the etherium Network as a node and the etherion classic networks technically I built an etherium client so I kind of finished what I started in 2014 with with mantis and it was a great piece of software like 14,000 lines of code a heavy use of property based testing we passed the entire aetherium test suite for the EVM I and you could sync with both chains and download the blockchain actually use it and submit transactions from it submit messages from it so I'm very proud of that I'm very proud of Allen Verbier and Brian McKenna and Allen McSherry and others who participated and continue to participate to some extent with that code base to answer questions and I the e.t.c community as a whole I think they're very passionate people and I met a lot of good people like Bruno paleo and and Stuart Mackenzie and others from that community so I don't regret the time we spent there and I just kind of feel sad that we couldn't do more and we couldn't come to terms with that and I like Bob summer wall a lot he's a pretty interesting guy he's the only person the world's ever given me maple syrup as a gift and it was good maple syrup hi Charles do we need to register create a steak pool you register steak pools on the blockchain and there's documentation for how to do that by dark oh it was nice seeing you buddy Darko's actually at the office but he's outside we've discussed DC funhouse chain-link a lot and we'll make a statement about that Nick one of our product managers has a big affinity for chain-link anything said that's a great example of a very effective piece of infrastructure there was a hundred pages long papers submitted that says or Boras way of doing proof of stake is enviable dat I OHA ever published response I'm not aware of the paper Mike Martin and generally speaking when you submit these papers you submit them back on Fritz's and you don't do them on reddit or Twitter you you at least give us the courtesy of emailing the damn thing to our scientists there's a lot of people say a lot of things and good for them with your elo rating guess if you can guess it I'll tell you Alex chirp annoy Alex by the way is the creative or go and score x2 of the most interesting projects in the history of the cryptocurrency space and frankly they deserve a lot more attention a lot more traction especially ergo there's great work there with the AVL trees the not outs horrible puzzles I think his is the first cryptocurrency to deploy that Sigma protocols and a litany of other things and Alex actually did work with IO HK for quite some time and published in papers with our people and Han Chang and and others his particular question is glad to see you what do you think about the 8th hard fork of italics chain Vitalik signed up to build a world computer and that's what he's doing and in 16 billion dollars of values there and a lot of people believe in a and has every right lead his people to the promised land as he sees it and they have every right to follow him I think that the Tazo approach is saying that the protocol should be aware of its design and use Democratic mechanisms to approve protocol upgrades is a much more viable and long term effort without this then you run into a situation of he who controls the client controls the universe and unfortunately that's always going to be very centralized so I wish vitalik well he certainly doesn't say kind nice things about me and ignores all the research we do except to criticize it but I do believe he's doing good work and I hope that they are successful in their forking endeavors I Charles do you smoke cigars with Bill Clinton not anymore what else do you have well excessive power usage of B of four PTC B its Achilles heel yes when is the data dump already did it go to our website the I which K blog Chris Larson said to the conference Bitcoin bill changes to PS in the future no it will not that is a cray cray community they they think proof-of-work is God and they think everything else is bad proof-of-work charlie Chico crypto accepted your fight invitation chickened out did he send me a link to the video I'll see if he actually did if he did we'll figure this [ __ ] out it'll have to be after jelly in Cogan but I'm down he did oh cool well [ __ ] we got to figure this out then our our right well we'll get around to it after Shelley ships because I want to like kill him twice once with Shelley shipping in once in the ring then I got a train I'm training to go down to Antarctica so that yes i after i do Antarctica I'll do that the 2020 is gonna be a fun year guys are get crypto crow on the horn - and see if he actually wants to be the promoter we can do it over and I I missed this conference so that'd be fun of course I keep it real man keep it real what we hire social political sciences for Voltaire yes on the complexity theory side that's the aggregation point that's the way to think about it no no hang on hang on he sure did he says he's gonna [ __ ] you up UFC so I said a boxing match not a UFC match I don't do UFC boxing ok he was a wrestler I I never wrestled but I did do a little bit of that boxing so I can do him in boxing is this gonna be a Conor McGregor thing with Floyd Mayweather I'm the bigger guy so I get to I get floyd mayweather rules he has to box one cadillac already half a Cadillac I got a CT six Charles I want to be in your corner got 15 years of taekwondo competitions experience if we actually do this and I'm gonna put a whole training team together and I'll send you a message about it because I ami up [ __ ] training guys that's why I need some time can't lose that have you read Atlas Shrugged yes I have mr.