Surprise AMA 10/06/2019

hi this is Charles Hoskinson broadcasting live from Warmsley Colorado it's a beautiful morning outside I just got back from my social and around the world and I'm having a quite a bit of fun so we went to Wyoming we went to Boston we went to Scotland went to Bulgaria Prague and Vancouver all in a very short period of time a ton of business from hackathons to meetings at Harvard and MIT to a lot of stuff about the incentives for the incentivize test that the two-year anniversary of card on oh I got to hang out Prague and see the community there and then finally good old Vancouver where I attend dtc summit which is an annual event so I figured now that I'm back here at Colorado and actually literally just got back and it meant home was gone so I said come here to the office and nice Sunday and let's have an AMA because we love you guys okay first things first there's been a fun NATO a foot storm crazy amount of fun floating around about Chordata delays the project is not mean well lead of course the expected requisite hit these videos have recently come out dredging up fake news and people who do that good for them never accomplished anything and they're not real people so the reality is project is in very very good shape we're moving fast Shelley is shipping this year the instead of eyes test n is the very first version of it you see to reiterate this because the crypto press seems to have missed it you have two options when you decentralize a system option a is just to immediately decentralize it throw it everybody to the Wolves and hope to god the is they figure it out and everything works or option B is you create a sandbox that gradually decentralizes and then that somehow has an impact on the main network so we chose the latter because it just simply makes more sense if we got something wrong if there's stuff we want to change we can do that rapidly and quickly without requiring coordinating a hard fork and also is the Galit area because this is new technology to you not to us we built that our partners built it so we know a lot about it but the general public does not so there needs to be a sandbox that gives people an opportunity to learn how to configure saying set up stake pools start building their business model build their brand convince people to delegate to them to understand how these dashboards work to give us advice and suggestions about things that they would want to see and again it makes a lot of sense to do that in a controlled environment where we can rapidly change things especially once we start fixing system level parameters to make it test up with high participation you basically allow people to stake and the stake rewards are real rewards so they carry over to me now so again we will be releasing blog posts the middle part of October specifically about how that snapshot is going to work how the incentivize test that's going to work what the software is going to look and how you can participate we're already getting overwhelming participation with the network to test net which is another thing that was just apparently totally missed by the foot media and we have almost a hundred state pools running on that we have tons of issues that have been reported lots of cool back-and-forth sand conversations and we're learning a lot the community's learning a lot there's 2400 people in the State pulled channel and we've cut since we've released it probably more than five or six movie releases in ten days and we're planning on cutting another release probably on Monday and maybe another release throughout the week so we're rapidly updating the software rapidly fixing bugs learning a lot along the way so cardano's looking good the Haskell side is also looking good it's ridiculously difficult to build this type of stuff so of course they're taking their time but releases are coming down that pipeline as well but we have are fortunate to have both the rust and the Haskell side and we're fortunate to learn from both so the project is going well we're not missing deadlines we know what we're doing and you can publicly see that on the github there's more commits with our project than any other cryptocurrency project on market the credentials qualifications of our engineers are clear and it's clear to see the quality of software as evidenced by fact that 13 year old children and Wyoming were able to get steak nodes running on raspberry PI's so I guess if these youtubers and other people are saying that there's nothing there they're not as smart as thirteen-year-old kids from Wyoming although those kids in Wyoming are pretty pretty happy another thing is and this is from Jonathan Fernandez confused why Charles got fired so many times I have not been I took a buyout with bitshares because I couldn't work with Dan as for aetherium that story is very clear it was either for profit not for profit they decided to go not for profit and seven of the eight founders are no longer there at etherium only one is metallic the rest all went off and did what I did and created their own company and for example consensus decentral parity which is no longer even really working on a theory of much and so some of these companies are competing with the very project my entire argument is if we didn't put golden handcuffs on people they wouldn't stick around and we didn't so I was right you see people like to rewrite history and people like to say things but I'd like to remind everybody I've been working on cardano's since 2015 I've put years and years of my life here every single day showed up for my job and did my job we now have 200 people in Iowa okay a hundred of which are working every day on Cardinal and they work very very hard every day publicly transparently the work is there but I guess some people would just like to pay attention to fake news they'd like to pay attention to the the latest sycophant or provocateur of the week and they don't seem to understand that these are among the most complicated of protocols to implement and they're based upon peer-reviewed research meaning they didn't exist prior to our company inventing them there is no code we can copy there is no source base to fork from and we're doing very hard things and when you do very hard things based upon science and it's new occasionally you have issues if you don't believe that take a look at the Apollo program look at the pictures of the astronauts who burnt to death in the capsule look at the moon rover and the moon lander just literally months before the mission actually launched and how much difficulty they have controlling it they spent 10 years in a million people on that project these projects are of the same scale they involve millions if not billions of users they involve millions of different devices they involve very complex protocols that have to be designed upfront to be resistant against the smartest hackers and attackers in the world who have every financial incentive to break things and you can look no further than to EOS to take those to any other project that's had some issue somewhere to say that if you don't do things right I don't suffer the consequences the users of the system suffer the consequences the holders of the tokens suffer the consequence namely you so it's important that things be done in a systematic process it's important that thing to be done safely and this doesn't mean that people are incompetent it doesn't mean that people are prepared to abandon the project I these markets have brought out and frankly the worst in people and they've made people say do things and comment in things in ways that are so counterproductive I'm happy to collaborate I'm happy to discuss the science I'm happy to discuss the accomplishments that we have had we brought to market and I'm happy to discuss our vision for the future and how we're going to roll Cardno out but what I'm not happy to do is to sit every single day and watch people time and again make videos personally attacking our project the integrity of the project our ethics our beliefs our values and the accomplishments it's insulting if not to me then to the 200 people that work at IO HK who every day wake up and just want to do a good job and believe in a decentralized future so for the sake of the space we all have to take a set step back and ask ourselves why are we here what are we doing and what's the point of all of this if it's just to get rich believe me there's significantly easier ways to do that that are a lot less stressful if it's to change the world it's to actually give billions of people things that they don't have that once they have them it lifts them up out of poverty and makes their lives better well that's something that's sir that's a meaningful pursuit and it's a long road that will take decades to achieve so the project is swimming along we're doing great work I'm very proud of the great participation we're getting I'm proud of this community I'm proud of the progress that's been made I'm proud of seeing thirteen year old kids running notes I'm proud that we're able to actually have a two-way conversation about product features and we're able to get rapid releases and iterations I'm proud to see the fact that we submitted eighteen papers in the month of October in September to various academic conferences our research flow is speeding up not slowing down I'm proud that we've solved major problems in computer science that previously were open questions if they could even be resolved and I'm proud most that we're still here despite all the hits the ups and downs the issues we're still here we're still strong and we're still going to show up for work every single day so screw the haters love every vol the lovers and let's get to your questions and yes the moon lander happened the pretending did happen Charles is going into Clint Eastwood from Unforgiven when he drank whiskey yeah there we go killed my friend all right guys give me a good question and yes Verity is definitely focusing on polka dot if they're kind of scaling things down Charles you're leaving the card out of foundation right never been part of it we have a representative on the Cardinal foundation but we're just there to help rebuild the foundation and get it back where it's going and let me be very clear my intention with the Cardinal foundation has always been the same nothing has changed there will be a an interim board that's what Nathan Kaiser Domino and then meet our or interim people they're not there forever and their point is to hire new board number seven of them an executive director and get the finances the reputation brand and the structure of the foundation in good shape and then becomes a solely independent entity again so we were hoping for faster progress but Switzerland moves very slow and there was a lot of damage and things to clean up but we don't exert control we don't have control over the books or the finances and the foundation right now in its current state is in a recruitment mode and it's looking to hire more board members and it's looking to gradually turn itself into an execution unit for the ecosystem and we will start at the average-case side putting tremendous organizational pressure on the foundation to begin that board diversification second we're going to start putting tremendous pressure to begin working with us on the Cardinal improvement proposal process and working with us on full terror to ensure that by the end of 2020 the proper democratic elements are installed the proper folding mechanics are installed and there's a clear governance model for the entire ecosystem this is one of the core mandates of the foundation and I have a strong expectation that it will get done and if I believe it's going to get done it's going to get done Kurata was losing Charles like apples losing Steve Jobs I hear this rumor - Charles is retiring Charles is leaving he's going away I'm not going anywhere I love this job I love cryptocurrencies I love blockchain we're just getting to the good parts for years and years and years and years all we were doing is talking about a future if only we get together and if we only work together we will get this great beautiful future and now we finally have a situation where we actually have the technology and we actually have the market credibility and the resources necessary to be able to execute on the things we've been talking about since 2009 as an ecosystem why leave when you actually have a chance to see these things get executed but people conflate my statements about the need for decentralization and balance of power and checks and balances with this concept that well that must mean I'm retiring or leaving know if this ecosystem is to work we cannot have cults of personality we have to have process over people and no one entity can be so vital that if you remove that entity the ecosystem dies or is greatly compromised because everyone can be corrupted everyone has financial incentives that don't necessarily align with the incentives of the ecosystem and everyone can be in some way compromised regardless of their integrity or quit or killed if they can't be compromised so the only way we're going to get there - a decentralized future where things like social credit don't bother us is if we decentralize the ecosystem and the only way we're going to do that is by reminding everybody that it's a two-way relationship I can build every type of tool any type of voting system I can build any type of incentives model I can build any type of process but if the community doesn't follow them doesn't use them stays ignorant to them well then we're at Ground Zero because if the end of the day no decision will be made unless I make it or someone else makes it so this is my point and this is why we we as a project are so focused on reminding you think it's vitally important frankly the single most important characteristic of cryptocurrency everything else it's easy to get there it may take five years or ten years and lots of engineering and some science but there's an inevitability to scaling there's an inevitability to interoperability and inevitability towards better transactions that are smarter and better smart contract programming languages just like your phone is going to get better in ten years from now when you pick up that iPhone or that Samsung Galaxy it will be an order of magnitude better as a device than the device I have today you have today and we all know that the markets are aligned to produce something like that but there's no guarantee that for example the American election system will be higher-quality there's no guarantee for example that the European Union will be more stable and harmonious and more democratic there's no guarantee that somehow China will embrace freedom in fact it's probably the opposite so we have to proactively remind ourselves that these are not problems that will solve themselves or inevitably just get where they need to go each of us has to work towards the centralization and each of us has to understand what that means and be an active participant in the revolution are you wearing New Balance boots right now I don't know if New Balance makes boots but I'm sure as hell gonna buy some new Balance shoes October 14th they're going to announce what we're doing it's pretty cool it does use Cardinal and I'm really excited it's not an atala project it's in a Cardinal project they specifically requested Carlyle we said wow that's super cool so we had to do some things and play around for a bit and we managed to get some things working so I wait for that announcement middle part of the month I think you guys would be really excited if that counterfeiting is a humongous market so 1.1 three trillion dollar market place and watch chains and crypto currencies are actually perfect devices that not only solve that problem but also introduce really cool new business balls for example the concept of good secondary markets for luxury goods for example when you go to eBay and you see a Gucci purse you kind of built into the price is your suspicion of whether it's real or not if it's easy to authenticate it it's always better for the seller you can also have discussions about residual royalties where you can create marketplaces that have these wonderful things like Gucci purses and Louis Vuitton but when it's sold a second time on the secondary market then Gucci would still get a royalty or Louie Vuitton would still get a royalty in exchange for providing some additional services of selective education so it's really exciting concept for luxury brands they lose a lot of money to this and it damages their brand and consumer experiences so we're super excited to be working with New Balance in that effect to think about these things that's here the difference between Casper Norah Boris is the finality no it's not just finality we solved all the problems we have to Kapil clock we can bootstrap from Genesis we have 50% Byzantine resistance we operate a semi synchronous model I it's a very different protocol and the science is clear there isn't and we wish him well greetings from Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan well welcome soldier yeah a coalition guy or your PMC can you specify what will happen when the I would UK contract ends in 2020 we will keep going to the scope work is done and then after the scope work is done we'll ask community for a new contract and instead of working for a single entity we work for you guys and it's up to you to decide whether we stay or go pretty simple on airman RI Charles wen Hsiu gonna eat it in November I'll have a nice shoot cake just for you guys when we launched the incentivize test that love you to dmitar Charles when did you decide for yourself that building a revolutionary financial system should be your life goal it was a complete accident Tet I got into this field I never expected to I did a free course people loved the course I did a TED talk and these kinds of things gave me opportunities to actually go and pursue something but now I'm glad in hindsight that I've had the experience of being in this field and it's been profitable but it's been meaningful it's been meaningful in that I've been able to go to 52 countries I've been able to meet heads of state I've been able to actually see the world and I've been able to talk to everyone about their problems about their dreams or hopes and to get a kind of a global empathy and get a sense of where the world is going you've all hurry's a great historian and he's also a great author and he writes these wonderful books about where we came from men also where he thinks for going and the crux of the books said we are constrained by narratives religions or constructions of narratives governments or constructions of narratives you see these example exist there's no actual place for a corporation and it's on paper but where exactly does Microsoft live is there a a cabinet you can open and you find Microsoft you see this is Microsoft then you grab it you physically touch it no it's an abstraction it's a concept it's a way we can collectively coordinate we choose to believe that lie in exchange for the emergent benefits it provides and the reality is that as technology changes and the focus of society changes then we need different fictions for us to get to the next level for example we used to be really worried as a species about war famine and disease so everything was constructed to mitigate these things and protect us from them but these days not many people starve to death compared to all 7 billion these days not many people die from large words these days not many people have to deal with massive plagues the Black Death for example which wiped out 1/3 of the European continent that said there's still tremendous problems in the world from malaria to Ebola they're sure in hell is still starvation and war but they tend to be more localized in fact if you read enlightenment now from Steven Pinker he makes this case that the world is becoming a better place and he exhaustively does it with a data-driven approach and show us over the last hundred years from 1900 to 2000 how this is really the best time ever to be alive but the problem is that now that we've globalized we have instantaneous access to information we live in a situation where the fictions that guided the world for a long time no longer irrelevant and it's creating social friction just why we see things like brexit and trumpets why we see the conflicts with China and the Hong Kong issue it's why the world seems a little bit more shaky and fragmented so or do for fictional changes and new narratives will come and really blockchain is a storytelling device it comes with it a philosophy about property about identity about how your money should work the level of autonomy you have the global nature of assets what's transparent what's not it comes with a concept of decentralized control so this is not just about money it's not just about token ultimately it's about storytelling it's telling a new story one that would give us a collection of tools that if we adopt them will allow us to take over to manage the processes the problems of globalization and also it gives a natural place for us to start putting artificial intelligence into the system to help us create mirrors to protect us from ourselves human beings are remarkably good at confirmation bias self-delusion and remarkably good at lying to ourselves no matter how good you are how smart you are to be working with technology that is like what Campbell used to say about computers they're like Old Testament God's lots of rules and no mercy to be working with systems that effectively don't care about you they have no empathy for you the rules are the rules and they're immutable and they can't be changed these are things humans aren't used to us kind of a social law of physics so I never imagined I'd be in a space like this or to do something as relevant as this and magical is this but in hindsight it has been so tremendously rewarding and we're in just so tremendously challenging and I truly do enjoy it those are the best of days the worst of days of course come when you deal with the politics of personal destruction and there's just people wake up every day and all they want to do is hurt you or in some cases just because they want to hurt you for the sake of hurting you or they think because they disagree with you you're a monster but someone once sent me a picture of me on a Lamborghini tractor and the caption was suck it up buttercup so if you want to go change the world you gotta suck it up and take the hits hello Charles any news about the Haskell car no no no progress I will have a test that too as the rest one yes and that one will likely come in January Haskell's a little behind the rust in terms of getting things to market because they also have to bear the burdens of running the entire network as it is but there will likely be one more major update to the Haskell codebase prior to the end of the year and then the shelling era will begin for the Haskell side in early next year and there'll be a shelley test net released on the Haskell side and we'll probably do the same thing we did where we have a self no test at the network test net but probably more accelerated it is an open question of which codebase will be most relevant to the user in the coming months but we'll figure that out and that'll come from a variety of decisions that are made based upon facts and circumstances but they're working real hard a lot of great progress has been seen I told the network team to stop writing code and focus on dick documentation for a few weeks and they ended up writing a hundred page document which is certainly fun to read but good things are good things are moving there too it's just it's very hard to write that type of code but they've gotten much better at it and we get demos all the time and certainly we see a lot of progress the Russ code is moving very fast though how does a EDD progressed in Ethiopia anything done after train young girls yes we did train the girls and we signed a pilot agreement with ministry of innovation of technology and we're right now starting the pilot so a feasibility study is gonna be done and then a pilot that pilot will conclude probably June of 2020 based on that will work with the government if it makes sense to set up a PPP and go ahead and create an RFP and build a coalition to actually construct a full currency for millions of people in Addis Ababa and if that happens on the I which case side which we'd it to but the economics have to align we will deploy that currency on Cardinal and which will bring millions of users in the Cardinal ecosystem every one of these deals does that for real you see rusty bike you made millions we got delays and a fake test that that's my point the stupidity never ceases to amaze me rusty what would you prefer what would you like us to launch you tell me it's a chat go ahead come on give us something good tell me how you'd run the project Hoskinson do you think our data with its bright steam and formal methods approach can compete long term with a project like eos with near their infinite warchest worth billions they don't have an infinite war chest they have some billions of dollars great Microsoft has billions of dollars how'd that work out for them when they competed against Google how'd that work out for them when they competed against Apple how they do it in a smartphone market how they do in the social network market how they doing in search not so well money doesn't magically make you win if it did all the monopolies of the old ages would still be in charge you don't need money to win you need people you need philosophy you need a good business strategy you need a great way of executing you need the right incentives for people to participate I'll remind everybody that the largest cryptocurrency is the one that was still started by one guy on a laptop that was Bitcoin and no money was raised for that yet still it is the biggest actor and has the biggest present second theorems ICO was smaller than the fine Leo's paid Securities Exchange Commission and aetherium is still kicking a OSes ass so money doesn't buy you success all it is is it just gives you more problems and a Treasury system overcomes all of this because you can literally do anything with the Treasury you could go ahead and make a decision I'm going to ask the community go raise 50 million dollars for this the community thinks about and says let's let's take that risk let's go down that road you now have a mechanism to use the power of the printing press to build anything you want why does the US dollar matter well we now can create our own money and as long as we get social consensus we can get it done there's a great corporate example of this look at Tesla they just print stock is that we need somebody to go create some stock here you go and they go sell it raise billions of dollars normal businesses don't do that they go out of business they're like oh god model is not sustainable it must say I had a crazy idea about where I'd like take the world in the future I'm just gonna go print some stock if the market wants it well raise the money we're good to go and they did and we can do the exact same with crypto currencies with a Treasury model so if we need 100 million it'll show up we need a billion it'll show up but what you can't replicate what you can't print is integrity and if you start from the beginning with no integrity and broken processes and it's all about the money and it's not really about actually achieving something you can't fix that that's why Bitcoin still King cuz that's all it had was the integrity how is our boards progressing very good Genesis you can use it right now today downloaded network testing that shut up put up it's running right now we invented it to four years to create it now it's there we're playing around with it kids are playing around with it and very soon rewards will start flowing and very soon it will be the status quo Network will be running and what the hell are y'all gonna saying q1 a 2020 it'll be something else when Gogan how can I learn Haskell I've never floated before well you just go ahead and read this lovely book that one of our secretaries got Graham Hutton's programming in Haskell it's quite a good book and this will teach you everything you need to know if it's too hard then read learning you a Haskell for great good or the Haskell book see ya three different sources good luck how will Shelly changed the world I'll tell you very succinctly we will have proven that you can run a global scale financial system that can support potentially millions of users and be 250 times more decentralized than Bitcoin with mechanisms to make it more decentralized over time on about 10 kilowatts of power the power of a large hall feels pretty good to me Carl endo Haskell was my first programming language first year in college where did you go to university there's not many that do that Edinburgh does but the American schools definitely don't in retrospect is there anything that you wish you had done differently oh my god yeah he made boatload mistakes on a lot of things we didn't take building a cryptocurrency especially in the Pioneer as serious as as we should have we said it's easy to construct the cryptocurrency these new protocols that we're developing are a lot harder so we over emphasized building the science division and we over emphasized the formal methods approach and we built out some great capabilities there which have paid enormous dividends we have more scientists and more paper volume than pretty much anyone in this space yeah there's no one you can point to that canal matches in that respect but we didn't really have a strong of a product focus and we didn't really have a strong of a development focus in the beginning as we needed to and then we tried half measures to fix it like putting strong project management on top and it just didn't work the way that we intended if we had to do everything all over again when we launched the Byron era we would have probably launched a command-line client full node and built it probably in a different way than we built Byron almost certainly in a different way and we would have launched Icarus as the first major product and it would have very tight control over the user experience it would have been easy to dragon multi-sig easy to dragon Hardware wallet support we'd be doing rapid updates every six weeks that team was very cheap to maintain and we just got a lot of value for it and we'd have had a great user experience with all of the people in the car on the ecosystem there wouldn't have been connecting to network or all these other things and the exchanges would have just run this command line though and we would have held off on Daedalus for a lot longer if we had to do it all over again there also is it open question of the wisdom of doing the first generation of a product and Haskell we had to do it all over again I probably would have done it Scala or F sharp F sharp is a really interesting ecosystem because you have xamarin and dotnet and all these beautiful things there and there's just really powerful applications that can be constructed Scala we've had a phenomenal development experience with and we've really enjoyed building Scala applications it's easy to predict when they're gonna be done they just work on Rails testing is quite straightforward and you can still use a lot of things in the formal methods community and you can still use a lot of things in the functional programming space like for example for product let's quit check there's Scala check there's there's a lot of things in that ecosystem that are quite nice and there's plenty of Scala developers out there so I have to do it all over again we definitely do things differently and we would have focused on a browser client to start with and really had that light experience and really made the user experience great and we wouldn't have tried to innovate too much in the beginning and then we would have iterated much in a much more agile way yeah the problem when you build things based on research is it always has a waterfall desk view it's very difficult to get agility at research because you create the paper and then you have to kind of think about it and write a prototype and then you discover a lot of things and you go back up the waterfall to revise the paper putting agile into paper development it's very difficult because scientists just don't work that way and they're used to much longer self-reflective time tables they submit to the conference as a referee process you go to the conference computer science is faster than mathematics or physics because their conference oriented not journal oriented so instead of maybe being one or two years for feedback you get it in six months but six months for feedback is is not acceptable for an entrepreneurial product culture so to accelerate that a bit you have to put special processes and it's something that we've had to learn along the way and it's still not perfect on the formal methods side we probably have a lighter touch vision I we do write it latex the right reference Haskell code we have done some things in Isabel maybe more exploration of things like PLA plus maybe not it's hard to say if the approach didn't yield merit or not because we have these great documents now the wallet back-end the wallet specification and the ledger spec and and so forth and these documents are easy to read and they're quite powerful and that give us a lingua franca how to have a conversation with external firms what we want to do and where we want to go so maybe we'd have a slightly more coupled or tighter approach or have perhaps a prototyping phase before you go directly into formal methods was a slightly separate team there's it's an interesting question and we're still tinkering and tooling in we have some great people in the organization who are definitely thinking about these things every day and working about these things we've proven we can be agile we did with Icarus we build it for months and everything was built in a proof-of-concept way and every month we had a demo and within two months it was taken and productized by a mer go and turned into their own ecosystem with your eye as a testimony to the quality of that software and the vision there if a third party can just simply take what you've done and instantly turn that into a product that they understand had a lot of five can build a roadmap on it's easy to do things for yourself it's hard to do things for other people so this is one of those things after it's all said and done at the end of 2020 we're definitely going to have a nice retrospective over the left the five years of total lessons learned and we will run a quite a comprehensive document on what we learned and what we did that said we are where we're at today and you have to move forward and we're rapidly releasing products if you look at our releases for cutting releases on the wallet back-end for cutting releases on rusts in some cases multiple times a week the Haskell code is certainly accelerating at a much faster pace that any Haskell developers usually do and we're starting to see a real product ization there and we're starting to get a better product focus I have some regrets about the relationship with the Cardinal foundation it was just so unfortunate that Parsons did the things he did and he lacked any desire to actually execute and have a vision and and work with us it was so hard to get them to do even basic things and we spent months and months and months trying to be nice about it taking the reins where we had to but ultimately that did hurt the ecosystem had we been faster on certain things especially with the release of Gogan and Shelly it would it would have been nice to go out into the field and build applications I I see the often criticism well nothing's been deployed on cardano's like guys I've met thousands of people the last few years who want to build on our system it's not going to be a problem finding the app developers and getting people to build things on Cardinal it's just a bit annoying that we haven't gotten to a state where that can be done in a reasonable way yet and I really want to because that's the fun part of the ecosystem because you're no longer talking about well when will this particular protocol ship you're talking about well how do we solve this problem ooh that's cool you're just doing all this cool prototyping and you get to see things being built look I really loved going to F Denver it was multiple floors of just boost after booths after booth and you get to talk one person after another person about well wouldn't you build it what are you solving two points I took away that this is a really creative space and second no one really cares about the infrastructure they're deploying to they're not loyal to aetherium Oreos or anything else they're here to solve problems and if the infrastructure enables them to solve that and works with them to solve that they'll stick on it but if the infrastructure works against them they will move on to something else so it's a great question certainly certainly had a lot of fun the last few years but man it's been hard it's been very very hard I wish I was able to spend more time with family I missed a lot of things I miss by grandfather and grandmother's death in the funeral I I miss anniversaries and birthdays and all kinds of things that I wish I hadn't missed and some people are no longer here to say goodbye to and I just wasn't around for the last moments so I guess you give up some of the good with the bad elements question who's died which case contract with building car down at will can we see copy of that contract absolutely not contract was negotiated with the entity that collected the funds to to build Cardinal and we it's a standard software development contract it's got a nice scope of work as time to completion but if there are overruns they're my responsibility not the responsibility of that entity so we are just gonna go do that and we're just gonna keep working till Phil terror is out even if it makes me broke there's a quantum computer a real problem slash trouble for Cardinal trees are doing great quantum computers not a problem don't read the headlines follow the science can you talk about how hard on approves identity in the network how are external acts and his stations handled this is a great example of cross-pollination so first you need a notion of well how are you going to treat identity in your system and the best way of doing that is saying identity is an object and in this case the did standard is probably where the entire industry is moving so okay good so we have a decentralized identifier is just basically a small like 54 bit or 56 bit address and then it points to something called added document which is self identity and it contains lots of additional information okay so that's the standard but what that doesn't give you is trusted attestation it doesn't give you a web trust it doesn't give you a liasing so you have to do a lot more batteries are not included with it it is a standard just kind of handle things but you need something on top of did to make it useful so we are building an identity product as a consequence of what we're doing for credential verification in Georgia and it turns out that that the color based identity product we're constructing is blockchain agnostic so you can pull the blockchain out and you can put a different blockchain hat so it's probably going to be the case that we take those mechanics that we're constructing which going out Sleater and we put those mechanics on top of Daedalus or the Cardinal platform and maybe there will be a light touch to begin so we're putting a message center into devilís as of 1.7 and the initial use case will be for us to push messages to people who have Daedalus but then once we have digs in and we have puffs up into the protocol you can subscribe to people so for example when you delegate to a state pool a state pool can have a unique identifier and a subscription channel and then when you stake it'll automatically subscribe to the state pool so the state pool can then push messages to your message sectors such as we're increasing fees are retiring or if it's a socially beneficial pool here's our use of funds report or whatever they want to set and of course you can unsubscribe right yes it's a interface that you have well if you have that system then the next thing you can do with those very same mechanics is a Francis so you can say okay well this HD wallet and this did belong to Bob so I'm gonna add Bob as a friend and when he gets a pending friend request what he can do is sign whatever identifier and send it back and then you can create addresses on his behalf to send him money and also it provides aliasing at that point so instead of seeing an address you see Bob so it's your version Bob so you can have namespace collisions but you've authenticated that Bob out of bath that's called web of trust so that's one way of doing it and it's the easiest way of doing things because it's totally decentralized but then there is the need for centralized curation in specifically for example how do I which ksi ohk or how do Google is Google so usually we introduced the idea of trusted third parties and the escape doing that is kind of importing something from the old certificate authority world into the system and will probably have support for x.509 in some capacity and then we could probably have a CA style system we can pull in that it's not terrible if it's coupled with the centralized identifiers and web of trust I think you can get around the downsides of of that type of attestation but it's going to be an interesting thing to discuss come 2020 and beyond and to solve this problem it's gonna take many many years of trial and error and there are some good projects that are looking into it I'd highly encourage you guys to look into hyper ledger indie and I highly encourage you guys to look into sovereign these are two examples of people who are really trying to take the identity problem seriously and have done some great open-source work that you can use as a stepping stone by the way that's that's how you do multi-sig really well if you have dibs in your system and pops up at your system then it's easy to coordinate these things and do it without a trusted relay server and that's really powerful it also helps you with contingent settlement because you can embed a get within an address and then when you try to send a transaction to it the first thing is kind of out of an negotiation and then both parties have to agree for that to settle so instead of just pull Trent push transactions you can have mutual transactions and that's particularly useful for things like exchanges for example if you're a finance customer bit Rick's customer you can have a white listing system where before you become a customer you have to register it did with the exchange and then the did will require you to sign or a dead that did somehow in your address that you was drawing from your dead credentials don't actually live and financier bit tricks so your private keys aren't there so if your account is compromised an attacker can't loot your address they can't take the money out because they won't be able to replicate the credentials for withdraw address it also solves the f8 EF traveler role and it potentially can give a path to liquidity for Z cash and other anonymity coins that are starting to lose a Nativity and starting to lose liquidity because of compliance issues you can encrypt the din bit it and then only the exchange can see that so that address is authenticated and it probably fit well in their compliance standard so a lot of really cool things you can do is sticking on test net available on your ROI I think there's going to going to be a you Royce taking we've certainly talked to Nikko and Sebastian about it we're going to do multiple updates to the incentivize test then maybe every four to six weeks will do a major update so a hard fork and reset it will announce that as we get closer to the test on how we want to do it if they don't hit us on the first wave I think they'll certainly hit us for the second wave because they're gonna want to test their GUI for snaking because they're gonna build a steak nice enter into your oi for watching main net and they kind of need to test it on the test net before they before they test it on maybe and there's a lot of ADA that lives in your ROI and to have to move it back to Dedalus some users may not want to do that I still don't understand the focus on Africa 95 percent of the Africans are poor yeah and 95 percent of Americans were poor back in the 19th century the vast majority of Chinese were poor throughout most of the 20th century in fact there was a time when Venezuela was significantly wealthier than China think about that things change and you make the real money when you're there first before the things change but they're going to change and then you scoop them up as they change second who would you rather bet on is going to be your customer people who live in a society where they're happy with their money and there's pretty strong financial infrastructure or a society where 70% of the population is at or under the age of 30 they're not happy with their currencies and they're looking for something new they're globalized and their cellphone centric I would much much much rather bet on bet on that demographic especially if that demographic is experiencing 10% GDP growth every year did you geo block US citizens on the ICO the ICO was done in Japan Korea and China and it was person-to-person and passports were collected and all the marketing was done in Japanese in Korean this is not iou's this wasn't a Mickey Mouse thing it was a very serious deal people sure as hell criticized it but in hindsight seemed a pretty [ __ ] good idea nine thousand nine hundred fourteen people participated all their names are known so if you go to Cornell hub to auric you can see the audit report that was produced on it but it's a closed matter and all those participants doing very very well quite happy for years people have been criticizing things but it's just a lot of recklessness especially in 2017 we saw and it's extraordinary to me that that people are totally tolerant of that but then when you do something that has checks and balances and controls an oversight and was done in a slow methodical deliberate way and that's somehow bad just let it go move on focus on today how the e.t.